Author Topic: Lazs2 - Rifle Advise  (Read 1936 times)

Offline Creamo

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Lazs2 - Rifle Advise
« on: December 09, 2004, 11:24:00 AM »
To kill coyotes and varmints. No fancy gold plating, flash suppressors, folding stocks, 40 round clips, bayonets, or whatever will impress someone next to you at the range. I just want to plink mostly, and hunt once in awhile. The Ruger mini14 a good buy?

Offline flakbait

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« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2004, 12:30:16 PM »
Depends on what you want and what you can spend. A good varmint rifle like a Mini-14, or an Olympic Arms PCR-1 (M16 variant) will do the job pretty well. While I HATE any variant of the M16, they are accurate out to 300 or so yards against varmints. Just be prepared for a long night of cleaning; direct-gas operation blows a lot of crud into the mechanism. The Mini-14 is a fine little rifle, but the iron sights on it I'm not impressed with. YMMV. It is a definite step above any M16 knock-off from a cleaning and reliability stand-point, though.

For a bolt-action varmint gun, you've got a lot of choices. Remington, Winchester, Browning, Weatherby, Savage and a few others make mi-te-fine bolt guns for nailing varmints. My neighbor goes out several times a year with his Weatherby Vanguard in .257 Wby Mag to bag ground squirrels in eastern Washington. It isn't a real fancy or expensive gun: the stock is ugly as sin, the scope is a real cheap 6x Burris, but he has a lot of fun! A real kick-in-the-pants gun is a T&C Encore pistol chambered in .223 Rem. At $550 retail you can't go wrong, but it is single shot and really needs optics. The fun part is you can swap out barrels to suit whatever it is you're hunting. You can go from .223 for varmints to 30-06 for deer and up to .44 Mag for anything else. Replacement barrels are around $200, and drop in after tapping out the hinge pin.



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Offline TheDudeDVant

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« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2004, 12:50:51 PM »
.270 WSM    8)

Offline lasersailor184

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« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2004, 01:00:21 PM »
Barret Model 82 .50 cal.


Imagine with a .223 .  Once you kill them, you have to go out there and clean them up.  .50's vaporize those critters.
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Offline rshubert

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Re: Lazs2 - Rifle Advise
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2004, 01:02:07 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Creamo
To kill coyotes and varmints. No fancy gold plating, flash suppressors, folding stocks, 40 round clips, bayonets, or whatever will impress someone next to you at the range. I just want to plink mostly, and hunt once in awhile. The Ruger mini14 a good buy?


The ruger mini-14 is wildly inaccurate at 100 yards, unless it's been taken in hand by a good gunsmith.  I get 4" groups from mine, and it's the best one I have owned to date (I have had three).

Get yourself a Savage bolt gun.  They make a very affordable .223 varminter, priced around $500, with a new adjustable trigger (that used to be savage's drawback).  Remington and Winchester models are a bit more.  According to Gun Tests, the Savage is the most accurate.

If you really, really must have a semi-auto, buy a new Ruger Mini-14 ranch rifle, (about $500), and send it off to Accuracy International (somewhere in texas).  They replace the barrel, and guarantee 1" accuracy at 100 yds.  That will cost about $1000, if i recall correctly.



shubie

Offline CavemanJ

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« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2004, 01:03:43 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
Barret Model 82 .50 cal.


Imagine with a .223 .  Once you kill them, you have to go out there and clean them up.  .50's vaporize those critters.


Exactly what I was thinking =)

Offline eagl

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« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2004, 01:14:37 PM »
I wouldn't get a mini-14.  It is inherently inaccurate due to the reliable but "sloppy" mechanism.  I have a nice mini-14 and after spending 6 months working on the rifle and testing various types of ammunition, I managed a 4 inch 5-round group at 100 yards.

By comparison, my 7mm rem mag (browning a-bolt with BOSS accurizing and anti-recoil system) shoots a 1 inch 5-round group at 200 yards.

A 22-250 shoots flat and accurate, and a nice 270 would also work well.  My brother picked up a bolt action 30.06 for a few hundred bucks and it shoots ok, but it's a little abusive on the shoulder for casual varminting.  

The 7mm I have would explode a rabbit and pretty much mangle a coyote, but with the right ammunition (lightweight with composite tip and boat tail) it would be accurate enough to hit a coyote out to or beyond 500 yards depending on conditions and the quality of the rifle.  Use heavy game ammunition and the same rifle can take an elk.  I got this rifle because I wanted one rifle that could take anything I had any desire to hunt.  I don't want to hunt bear and I have no desire to pack a moose out of the woods even though a well placed shot will take down a moose too, but it's perfect for almost everything else and since there's only a 4-6 inch or so drop at 300 yards, hitting what I aim at isn't much of a problem.  If I sight it in at 200 yards, I can shoot out to almost 500 yards and the bullet will be within 6 or so inches of aimpoint, plenty accurate for a kill without much aimpoint guesswork.

One of the 22 magnum rounds would be cheaper and there are tons of varmint hunters buying up accurizing kits so you might be able to find a nice hopped up 22 magnum (hornet?) that would take coyote out to a few hundred yards without trouble.  My Dad has a 22-250 and it's quite nice.  Imagine a .223 round, but with an additional 1000 fps :)

For cheap varminting fun, even a ruger 10-22 can be accurized.  My 10-22 will shoot 3 inch groups at 100 yards bone stock.  Adding a bull barrel and a trigger kit would cut that in half, making it perfect for rabbit and ground squirrel.  It'll take a coyote if you hit it in the right spot, but I don't think I'd want to risk a non-fatal shot so I'd use .223 or some other magnum .22 for coyote or larger.  .223 is also good for deer if you can place the shots, but again you risk the animal running off and slowly dying somewhere else if your shot isn't placed right, and that's just not cool.

Just don't get a mini-14 and expect to hit anything with it.  It would work up close against a coyote and they're reliable and easy to carry, but it's really not a good varminter and I haven't talked to a single gunsmith who said they can be accurized worth a damn.

My brother has a long/heavy barrel variant of the olympic arms AR, (M-16) and it's very accurate for a .223.  I'd trade my mini-14 ranch rifle for one except that the olympic arms rifles are very expensive due to the idiotic bans the weapon has faced because it looks scary.  My mini-14 cost $350 and so far it's eaten 2 scopes due to the abuse the heavy bolt dishes out; My brother's AR is currently running around $1800 and faces state-specific export/resale restrictions.  It's a bear to carry for long distances because of the heavy barrel but it points easily and hits right where you aim.  Right after finishing Army boot camp, I saw my brother pick off 2 running jackrabbits at 75 yards with that thing.  Just point, shoot, and mr rabbit exploded in a puff of fur and bloody goo, just like in the video games :)

edit - for the price of the accurized mini-14 shubie mentioned, you can get a nice AR-15 variant.  Another drawback of the AR however is that every damn federal agent, whether it's FBI, BLM, or the girl scouts auxiliary, will try to confiscate the damn thing on sight.  The mere sight of it invokes instant fear and hatred by the anti gun freaks and the fed jackboots.  A stupid BLM guy tried to confiscate 4 weapons from me, my 2 brothers, my dad (while he was an active CHP officer no less), and a friend.  This idiot was out in the middle of the california desert when he came across our little group.  We had valid id (my dad had his badge too) and valid CA hunting licenses, and every gun was 100% legal, but this jackprettythang tried to take our guns.  He must have had a deathwish because if we were "that type", he'd have been buried on the spot and nobody would ever have known where he went.  As it was, he knew he was wrong and was lucky to be alive about 5 minutes into the encounter, but he wouldn't back down and called in our names and the serial numbers for an AR sporter, a mini-14, my dad's CHP issued service pistol, and my brother's olympic AR.  His office told him to not be stupid, and he let us go.  If we hadn't been about the most honest citizens on the planet, that idiot would have disappeared so we still have no idea what possessed him to hassle us.  If we were the type of people that deserved law enforcement action, he would have died on the spot.  Since we didn't jump him, there could be no possible reason for him to hassle us, but he still did.

So the moral of the story is if you get anything that looks like an M-16 or other assault weapon, expect to get hassled.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2004, 01:26:51 PM by eagl »
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Offline Yeager

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« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2004, 01:22:32 PM »
stay away from the mini14

For coyotes get a nice bolt action with a scope in a light to medium caliber.
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Offline Terror

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« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2004, 01:37:37 PM »
For purely plinking/varminting at ranges no greater than 100yds, a Ruger 10/22 is a perfect rifle.  Even a stock factory 10/22 will shoot less than 2" groups at 100yds.  If you want more range/hitting power, an AR15 type of rifle is a better choice.  Of course, an AR15 will more than double the cost of a 10/22.

The Mini-14 is a great plinking rifle, but has a definite accuracy problem.  The problem with the Mini-14 is not the action, but the light short barrel.  Vibrations that travel down the barrel with the round cause alot of variation in impact point at ranges over 75yds.  A 4-5in. group at 100yds is about as good as a factory Mini-14 will get.  The only real way to improve the accuracy of the Mini-14 is a barrel replacment or a Harmonic Stabilizer.  Both are rather expensive modifications to the Mini-14.

An SKS is a pretty good plinker also.  It shoots the 7.62x39mm round.  You can find pretty good setups for the SKS for around $200-$250.  

Terror

Offline rshubert

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« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2004, 01:59:52 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by eagl
So the moral of the story is if you get anything that looks like an M-16 or other assault weapon, expect to get hassled.


Well, maybe if you live in the People's Republic of California.  Here in flyover country, the state troopers, Fish and Wildlife, and local cops all shoot at the same range with us militia wannabes.  One of my buddies, a police lieutenant in Arkansas, told me that the only way he would confiscate a gun is if he wanted it for himself!

We have machine gun shoots here on a monthly basis.  Evil black guns with real full auto capability!



shubie

Offline Steve

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« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2004, 02:20:45 PM »
I have a russian SKS and can hit a rabbit sized target quite a ways out. Never thought of it as a varmint gun.. but I guess it would work pretty darned good.  

Definite Pros:  

The gun is inexpensive(get the russian version as opposed to Chinese)

Ammo is very cheap and reliable.



Definite Cons:
Unless you have a composite stock(mine has the original wooden stock) it is rather heavy.


some say it is not a particularly accurate rifle. Compared to a precision hunting rifle that may be the case but I think it will suit your needs nicely.
I have open sights on mine... I wonder if there are good optics options.... wish Lazs or someone knowledgeable would chip in.
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Offline Terror

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« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2004, 02:35:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Steve
some say it is not a particularly accurate rifle. Compared to a precision hunting rifle that may be the case but I think it will suit your needs nicely.
I have open sights on mine... I wonder if there are good optics options.... wish Lazs or someone knowledgeable would chip in. [/B}


A SKS Rifle Accessories page.

Terror

Offline Steve

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« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2004, 02:45:57 PM »
Cool Terror, thanks.

Which scope mount is the easiest to add?

On the linked page, the number 14 looks like something I want, I think.

What's a peep site system?
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Offline NUKE

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« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2004, 02:55:19 PM »
I have a Russian SKS too. I like it a lot and it seems pretty accurate to me.

Like Steve said, it's a very inexpensive gun.

Offline rshubert

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« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2004, 02:55:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Steve
I have a russian SKS and can hit a rabbit sized target quite a ways out. Never thought of it as a varmint gun.. but I guess it would work pretty darned good.  

Definite Pros:  

The gun is inexpensive(get the russian version as opposed to Chinese)

Ammo is very cheap and reliable.



Definite Cons:
Unless you have a composite stock(mine has the original wooden stock) it is rather heavy.


some say it is not a particularly accurate rifle. Compared to a precision hunting rifle that may be the case but I think it will suit your needs nicely.
I have open sights on mine... I wonder if there are good optics options.... wish Lazs or someone knowledgeable would chip in.


Steve,

there are options for scoping an SKS.  most of the mounts use a new receiver cover that is bolted in place, and has some sort of tensioning system to keep it jammed in place against the receiver.  They work ok, but not great.  I have a B-square model on one of my SKSs.

Choate makes a good, light plastic stock for the SKS.  I have one, no complaints.  TAPCO (http://www.tapco.com) offers a really good,wide assortment of accessories for your SKS (this is not a paid advertisement).



shubie