Author Topic: Learning to fly  (Read 8539 times)

Offline mars01

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« Reply #90 on: December 16, 2004, 02:34:22 PM »
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I flew back out to Malibu and I did more power-off stalls. I really had to pull the yoke back all the way to get it to honestly stall, and I noticed that it didn't have a huge tendency to roll in either direction.
Yep thats a warrior.  Very nice stall characteristics.  Almost too nice for primary training.

Good Job!  Sounds like you are doing great!  I miss my training days, always had a reason to fly.  I'm sitting at work wishing I could find a reason to go up now lol.  Thats the only bummer about getting done with your PPL, you fly alot less.  I found I got pretty bored going up and puttsing around.  Thats why I'm in the market for an S2B then I can go up and really have some fun :D.

Offline eagl

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« Reply #91 on: December 16, 2004, 04:32:29 PM »
Welcome to the world of the $60 hamburger and $80 grapefruit.  Why so expensive?  Because you'll end up flying places, grabbing a bite to eat at the airport or buying whatever local produce is sold in the terminal or FBO (grapefruit and dates are popular at the California desert airports) and then flying home.  When you get home, your wife/spouse/kids ask what you did, and the only thing you'll be able to really say is that you went somewhere, had a burger or bought a bag of grapefruit, and it cost $80 in fuel and hobbes time.

Catalina island makes a great day trip, and if you have a free weekend during the dive season it makes for a nice dive trip.  The airport sells great buffalo burgers (I think they grow their own buffalo, no shxt you can see them walking the hills near the airport) and the landing fee is reasonable considering you're out on an island.  There is a shuttle bus to the isthmus and lots to do around the island.  There are some rules, both written and unwritten, about flying around Catalina however so read up on the airport, ask around, and give the FBO a call before making your first trip.  Also, the airport ends at a cliff and is set at a fairly steep angle so there is a nasty visual illusion when landing.  If you don't fixate on the runway and remember to look at the horizon and other visual cues however, it's not too bad.  Just don't try to land in the first 100 ft or you might land a bit short, and that means you hit the cliff face instead of the runway.  It's about a 700 ft drop to the base of the cliff if I recall correctly...  I've been out there 4 or 5 times and it's been a nice trip each time.  Fly out with some friends, and that $80 buffalo burger only costs $40 or $20 :)
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Offline Widgeo

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Re: Turbulence and radio calls!
« Reply #92 on: December 16, 2004, 05:31:46 PM »
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I'm flying up to the fam tomorrow, so this is my last lesson until the beginning of January when I return, hope I don't forget everything!


You won't forget. Its like riding a bicycle. I started flying when I was 19 but had to quit before I got my ticket due to lack of funds. 15 years later my wife bought me a intro flight gift cert. at the local flight school. The instructor let me take off do most of the flying and land. It all came back though my landing was not as smooth as before. :D

I plan on re-starting my flying since I'm able to afford it now. I just need to find a good flight school in the Seattle area.

Offline AKIron

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« Reply #93 on: December 16, 2004, 05:36:28 PM »
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Originally posted by Stringer
Two things:

1.) I think AKIron still wears that shirt.

2.) I learned in the PA-38, and my instructor gave me spin training in it.  Since that was the first plane I'd ever flown it didn't seem to bad at the time.  The 172 seemed like a kitten after trolling around in the Traumahawk.


LOL, I probably would if it still fit. I've put on a few pounds since 1979.
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Offline LePaul

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« Reply #94 on: December 16, 2004, 05:47:20 PM »
About the Tomahawk...

When I went to flight school (Beverly/Danvers Mass.) I had all my time in C172s and already had my license.  They had Tomahawks considerably cheaper (as I recall, C172 was $79 an hour, Tomahawk $52).  Instructor took me up a few times for familiarization and I thought it was a fun bird to fly.  He warned, over and over, never to spin the thing, even for fun or training recovery.  Mentioned they had a nasty spin.

What's the 411 on the Tomahawk and spins?  I'd just like to know, I've never intentionally spun an aircraft unless it was approved for and part of training.

Offline jigsaw

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Re: Turbulence and radio calls!
« Reply #95 on: December 16, 2004, 07:38:24 PM »
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Originally posted by Chairboy
checked ATIS for weather and set my altimeter, etc.


Money saving tip: Get ATIS with your scanner, a cell phone, or the stack in the plane without the engine running.  Over the course of your PPL you'll pay for a lesson in the savings of getting it while the hobbs isn't turning.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2004, 08:11:38 PM by jigsaw »

Offline beet1e

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« Reply #96 on: December 16, 2004, 07:47:57 PM »
LOL! - any of you land-lubbing willy-wooftas tried any over water flight? Call yourselves men? :lol

Of course, living on a tiny little island, it follows that one would traverse the ocean to push back the frontiers presented by aviation. For me, those 37 nautical mile hops across to Le Touquet became routine. But I also visited the Channel Islands, and various French destinations. Longest over water flight was from the French airfield of Fréjus - out over the western Med to St. Tropez, then out to point MERLU, and then a direct track to Corsica, landing at Propriano - 160 nautical miles, almost all of it over water.

Beat that!


Offline cpxxx

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« Reply #97 on: December 16, 2004, 10:29:22 PM »
Your story is bringing  back memories Chairboy. I remember similar early days of flight training.  Don't worry when you seem to go backward and screw up things you thought you'd nailed. It's the same with everyone.  One thing that puzzles me is how much hood time you've done.  It seems very early in your training.  Is it an FAA thing?  

Beetle, maybe not 160 miles but as someone living on an even smaller island I 've flown over the Irish sea to England a few times.  A lot scarier than the Channel.  The thought occurred to me more than once that if the single engine out in front, stopped now over the water and with the land only a distant smudge on the horizon then I'd feature on the six o'clock news in two countries that evening.  Without the word 'rescued' in the report either.  I somehow doubt that ditching a fixed gear high wing aircraft like a 172 is particularly surviveable. I was never that nervous about it though. Unlike a friend who developed a trembling knee and a sudden intense interest in the engine controls as 'auto rough' syndrome cut in while flying back from the Isle of Man one dull, cloudy wintry day.

Flying over the Channel was an experience too as was flying up the length of the Normandy beaches.  Flying in the very space that saw so much history is spooky.  Crossing the channel I tried to imagine the scenes played out in the very place I was so placidly cruising through.  We were in loose formation with another aircraft and at one point I lost sight of him. It really brought home how on the ball you had to be in back in the 1940's if you wanted to stay alive.

That is one thing American flyers miss out on. The ability to fly in and see the very places we now simulate on HTC and other sims.  It really brought it home to me at the time.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2004, 12:45:36 AM by cpxxx »

Offline Chairboy

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« Reply #98 on: December 16, 2004, 10:44:43 PM »
Regarding the hood time, he's having me do a few minutes each flight, and I'm finding it very useful.

He asked me today while I was under the hood "What would you do if you entered a cloud by accident?"  Without hesitating, I responded that I'd turn around.  That was apparently the right answer, and he told me to keep all my instrument turns shallow.  

"You're not in a hurry, keep the bank angle shallow to help avoid disorientation", he said.  Makes a lot of sense, I banked a little far once while under the hood and could really feel how someone could become disoriented quickly.
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Offline beet1e

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« Reply #99 on: December 17, 2004, 04:53:06 AM »
Oh, no bites - just a nibble from cpxxx - How ya doing!

Yes, I can imagine the Irish Sea could be interesting, with weather and all. What always amazed me about crossing the Channel was that the weather on one side could be completely different from the weather on the other side. Le Touquet was prone to fog. The hotels there do a roaring trade from stranded VFR pilots, and I was sometimes one of them. Cpxxx, I take it your licence is issued by the Irish authorities? Do you have that IMC rating that we have here?

The one thing I made sure of for those overwater flights was to do what chairboy is doing, and get plenty of hood time in. Although conditions could technically be VMC, as you know it was often not possible to see anything. The condition which our CAA identifies as "empty vision myopia". One time I was flying Jersey to Southampton. It was CAVOK at Jersey and 8km vis. at Southampton. But in the middle, over the Channel - oh boy. :eek: My intended heading was 010°, and I was trying to fly VFR. The sea seemed to be sloping away and when I looked at the DI I found I'd made an unintentional turn onto 270°! From that moment, I kept my head inside the cockpit, glued to the instruments while my passenger looked out the window. I'd descended to 1500' and Southampton gave a timely reminder that my minimum safety altitude in that sector was 2300ft - because of that TV mast on the Isle of Wight. I decided to climb to MSA, and it was awful. The sea was still visible, but that was it. According to Southampton, there was only one other aircraft in the area - another PA28 about 15 miles ahead of us going in the same direction.  We continued for what must have been about 20 minutes, and then... we could see sailing craft in the waters below. It was the most beautiful sight! Came in over Southampton Water and landed. This was c1989 in the days before the A-G airspace. I forget what Southampton's airspace was called, but in the reduced visibility I asked for a Special VFR clearance to Enstone - my home base, right next to USAF Upper Heyford. As a VFR pilot (no IMC) I should not have asked for that clearance, although when I checked later I saw that Rule 36 allows ATC special dispensation to grant one to a VFR pilot.

You're right about the ditching of a 172 - not a good prospect. Low wing with retractable would be the least bad prospect. My latest plane was a TB10 - low wing, fixed gear. The thing is, surviving the ditching would only be the first part. As you know, those Channel waters are cold enough to kill, even in the summer. I wore a life vest, but my life expectancy in that water was probably around 2 minutes in the winter, maybe a whopping 4 minutes in the summer. I always kept an eye on where the surface vessels were, and there are many in those waters. There are also sharks - but blue sharks that eat plankton or small fish, ie not interested in a 200lb steak.

Mars01 said "I miss my training days, always had a reason to fly. I'm sitting at work wishing I could find a reason to go up now lol. Thats the only bummer about getting done with your PPL, you fly alot less. I found I got pretty bored going up and puttsing around." Not baiting you, because you're an old friend :aok but I can't help noticing how our Aces High gameplay personalities carry over into real life. You are clearly very good and knowledgeable about your 152 - spinning, general handling etc. But where we differ is that I found my hours skyrocketed after I got my licence and bought a ½ share of a PA28-151 shortly thereafter. As in AH, I wasn't terribly interested in all that yanking and banking. ;) (And this was years before I knew my first flightsim!) I did some, of course, but as in AH it would not have held my interest. I wanted to use the aircraft to go sightseeing! Tail wagging dog on occasion, but I loved every second. In my peak years 1989-94, 75-100 hours a year was typical for me. It was a different skillset from yanking & banking. My forté was route planning, NAV & MET, and doing those 250 mile flights - over water and mountain flights at my oxygen ceiling were of particular interest.

Chairboy has a lot to look forward to, especially if he were to spend a season flying around Europe. Might have to rob a few banks first though. :lol

Offline mars01

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« Reply #100 on: December 20, 2004, 11:10:03 AM »
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Mars01 said "I miss my training days, always had a reason to fly. I'm sitting at work wishing I could find a reason to go up now lol. Thats the only bummer about getting done with your PPL, you fly alot less. I found I got pretty bored going up and puttsing around." Not baiting you, because you're an old friend  but I can't help noticing how our Aces High gameplay personalities carry over into real life. You are clearly very good and knowledgeable about your 152 - spinning, general handling etc. But where we differ is that I found my hours skyrocketed after I got my licence and bought a ½ share of a PA28-151 shortly thereafter. As in AH, I wasn't terribly interested in all that yanking and banking.  (And this was years before I knew my first flightsim!) I did some, of course, but as in AH it would not have held my interest. I wanted to use the aircraft to go sightseeing! Tail wagging dog on occasion, but I loved every second. In my peak years 1989-94, 75-100 hours a year was typical for me. It was a different skillset from yanking & banking. My forté was route planning, NAV & MET, and doing those 250 mile flights - over water and mountain flights at my oxygen ceiling were of particular interest.


LOL don't get me wrong beat, I have had my license for a few years and in the beggining I did all the trips too, my longest was from CT to Pittsburgh PA.  I think the trip was about 400 miles or so.  I rented a 172 in Jackson Hole WY and flew around Yellow Stone.  

I never turn down a flight or ride and make routine  trips around the Statue of Liberty all the time.  I was hanging out at our flight school just this past weekend and sat back seat in a Barron 58, while my instructor (now good friend) was giving an IFR lesson.  Talk about a beautiful plane.  Full, glass cockpit, full leather, our GS to Harford was 260 miles an hour with a nice tailwind.

But honestly I got my license to fly acrobatics, so the mulling around has gotton somewhat mundane, but I still love it!

Anyway, you know the old saying...

"It's better to be down here wishing you were up there, than up there wishing you were down here."

I only felt that way once, early in my training, practiceing landings on a bit of a windy day.  hehehehe  lol.  Boy was I happy to get that thing down and parked hahhahaha lolh.

Offline beet1e

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« Reply #101 on: December 20, 2004, 12:14:09 PM »
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Originally posted by mars01
But honestly I got my license to fly acrobatics, so the mulling around has gotton somewhat mundane, but I still love it!
OK, fine. I've done quite a bit of aerobatics too in my gliding years. Over the winter months there was bugger all else to do, as soaring was out. It could get expensive though. When you start aerobatting in a glider from 3000', it's not going to be long before your E is all gone and you have to land.

Mulling around would bore me too. But I never got bored on those foreign trips. Every flight was different. I met so many people, and saw so many different attitudes and approaches to flying.

I could not have done what I did in a rental plane. Too many restrictions/stipulations. Eg., some FBOs (as they're known in the US) would not let you take a plane on an overnight trip. Most would stipulate a minimum number of hours the plane would have to be flown each day if you were taking it away. Some did not like you taking the plane into a foreign country. Sometimes I'd get in that plane and go off for a week, ten days or even more.
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"It's better to be down here wishing you were up there, than up there wishing you were down here."
Hehe, yes! We have that saying here too. But even though I put myself in some heavy workload situations, the position never became irretrievable. I mentioned that one flight to illustrate the importance of instrument proficiency on overwater flight. I'm sure you would agree.

Where's Chairboy?  I hope we haven't scared him off!

Offline Chairboy

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« Reply #102 on: December 20, 2004, 12:42:20 PM »
I'm up in Oregon for the holidays, so my flying is on a temporary hiatus.  I thought about maybe getting a couple hours in a local 172 or something, but decided not to until I after I solo.  I want to give my instructor a chance to give me the right mix of habits before I involve someone else, plus I really want to spend every minute with my family.

Another part of the reason I'm doing the lessons now in LA is that I've moved my whole family up to Springfield, OR while I look for a replacement job.  It was either learn how to fly or start drinking, I figured I might as well spare my liver for now.
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Offline Habu

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« Reply #103 on: December 20, 2004, 02:41:43 PM »
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Originally posted by beet1e
LOL! - any of you land-lubbing willy-wooftas tried any over water flight? Call yourselves men? :lol

Of course, living on a tiny little island, it follows that one would traverse the ocean to push back the frontiers presented by aviation. For me, those 37 nautical mile hops across to Le Touquet became routine. But I also visited the Channel Islands, and various French destinations. Longest over water flight was from the French airfield of Fréjus - out over the western Med to St. Tropez, then out to point MERLU, and then a direct track to Corsica, landing at Propriano - 160 nautical miles, almost all of it over water.

Beat that!


I fly over Georgian Bay going from Toronto to Sudbury quite a bit. Not sure how long the Bay is but it is probably a good 60 naut miles based on how long it takes to fly.

I ususally climb up to 9500' in the 182 and have the throttle all the way in. Usually cruise at 130 to 150 knots depending on the tailwind.

Offline beet1e

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« Reply #104 on: December 21, 2004, 11:33:18 PM »
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Another part of the reason I'm doing the lessons now in LA is that I've moved my whole family up to Springfield, OR while I look for a replacement job.  
Are you going to be buying another pizza restaurant? You could make deliveries by air!