A matter of perspective.....

[detch01]

Originally posted by kj714

1. fight your own fight  - kinda vague, does that mean don't drop in on a 1v1, don't horde, or fight the way you want to fight, which means milkrunners, strat guys are okay.

By that I meant that do your best and don't worry about what anyone else thinks about it. If you do that, then my second point can kick in and what you can do in a fight increases as you gain knowledge and skill.  If you're into bombing, then bomb the hell out of everything you can find. If you're into Jabo, air-superiority, or just furballing do the same.  Hording is boring as hell once you figure out how to play the game without it. Same-same for Horun.
BTW - the standard attempt at polarizing the game into "furballers" and "milkrunners-strat guys" is narrow-minded and lame. If that's where you are I don't see you picking up anything useful in this thread.  

2. Don't get rude or ugly - sure enough, common sense would dictate this and it's really a line that's only crossed occasionally.  It's only happened to me personally once in the last month or so, and it had been quite a while before that. My sense of the MA, anyway.

One person's "smack talk" could be another's rudeness I suppose.  

You know, the salute has gotten quite popular, rude or smack?

Ok, there are reasonable limits to behaviour even in competitive situations. Invite some guy out you barely know for beer and pool.  Now every time he beats you tell him to go himself. See how long it takes before he either walks away from you or whacks you in the mouth with his stick.
The salute means only one thing, the person giving it has lost the fight, doesn't know how or why they lost it, isn't willing to learn anything new to prevent it from happening again, pretty much has no self-respect and is a waste of skin if you ask me.

3. This is a game, it's supposed to be fun and if you aren't having fun you're in the wrong place.  - lots of debate here. Game or Sim? Strat guys, milkrunners are enjoying themselves, thinking they are contributing to their side or maybe just to their own score, if that's what's important to them for whatever reason. So no foul?
I get the idea that the AW "code of conduct" was quite different from the good old days convo's above.

How so?

asw

[kj714]

Well, I get the idea that people who wish for the "good old days", tend to look down on the strat / milkrun people and wish them gone for the most part.  The good old days were focused on A2A combat.

To be more specific, I get the idea that #1 & #3 are more closely aligned with the "new" style of play, ie, strat and milkrunning are okay, if that's what one wants to do, it's their money.

[Charon]

Well, I get the idea that people who wish for the "good old days", tend to look down on the strat / milkrun people and wish them gone for the most part. The good old days were focused on A2A combat.

Well, I usually play a lot more strat each month in other games than I spend time flying in AH. I would likely be an active strat participant here if you actually had some challenge to the process beyond the numbers game. Valid in RL of course, but boring to me in a game. I fail to even find the level of challenge in AH strat that you find from the AI in a game like Civ3. There was strat in the good old AW days as well, but you faced active resistance. If you wanted that base you had to take it, and you took it in the face of solid, consistant running resistance.

And, the good old days weren't always that good. No rose colored glasses here. There were fewer numbers (especially in DOS FR) and you could spend a lot of time trying to find that fight. It was usually a good fight, but often not really hair on fire type of stuff. I suppose I would like to see someting more here, both strat and A2A, and not something that is a lesser experience in both areas.

Charon

[bustr]

Last night in the CT we flew the "Old Way" for about 2 hours. Great fun was had by all. This happens about 4 times during the week with up to 20 flyers showing per session. It gets started about 5-6pm PST and lasts to about 9pm PST. Gang banging does take place but for the most part the regulars are followers of the "Old Rules" and help keep the action fun. You can get players to change sides to even it up, (most of the time:) ) It's usually the newer players checking it out who vulch you on take off or landing.

Point is, during the hours listed above(when I usually get online weekdays) the CT is alot like the old AW.

[Charon]

Last night in the CT we flew the "Old Way" for about 2 hours. Great fun was had by all. This happens about 4 times during the week with up to 20 flyers showing per session. It gets started about 5-6pm PST and lasts to about 9pm PST. Gang banging does take place but for the most part the regulars are followers of the "Old Rules" and help keep the action fun. You can get players to change sides to even it up, (most of the time ) It's usually the newer players checking it out who vulch you on take off or landing.

I'll have to check it out again. I've had some good experiences in the CT and some really bad (MA with fewer numbers, run to ack, gangbang, etc.) experiences.

Charon

[detch01]

Kj - if you look at AH in the MA there's lots of "fighting" as in lots of people getting shot down, but there isn't much in the way of competition between players or groups. That's the big difference between the AW I knew and AH.  
The "code of behaviour" I was familiar with in AW had nothing to do with game play specifics it had to do with the way we interacted with each other and with what kind of respect we treated the game (i.e. willingness to learn from experiences in it).
Game play was focused on A2A combat but that included the "land grab". The land grab almost always provided for a really large fights and made for some truly good Squad v. Squad rivalries.  In AH the land grab generates a horde because there's a stampede to other fields and easier places to play when a field is attacked by a semi-large force.
re: horun in AW - didn't happen when I was there. HO's were shut off and people who perched at high alt, screamed through an enemy flight and ran for the nearest friendly ack were pretty much laughed at and as most people don't like being laughed at they generally figured out how to achieve some success without getting laughed at. Here ppl whine and moan about it and it remains a viable game play option. Derision is always a far better tool for correcting game play than whining about it.
A "code of conduct" in AH based on allowing or disallowing specific actions or types of game play won't change game play one iota.

asw

[Stang]

Originally posted by detch01
Derision is always a far better tool for correcting game play than whining about it.

This is why I call guys out on channel 200 for all sorts of lame things.  It's about the only thing I can do to enlighten them at this point.

[rshubert]

Originally posted by Stang
This is why I call guys out on channel 200 for all sorts of lame things.  It's about the only thing I can do to enlighten them at this point.

Don't oversimplify.  Derision only pisses people off.  That's when you get the flaming "who the F are you to talk to me that way" comebacks.  I've learned that fact over many years, in many endeavors.  Treat people with respect, not derision, and they will come around.

Try to learn something every flight, you say...how come you guys can't learn THAT?  Cojones getting in the way?

[kj714]

Thanks Detch & Charon, now I'm getting a better understanding of what we're talking about here.  When people just throw around the "code of conduct" phrase, everybody nods, but really ,what are we talking about? This is a little better. I needed it for my own personal point of reference.

For me, It's difficult to imagine anything really changing the way the MA is played, unless most of the big squads decided to get together on all three sides and try to make a change.

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by lazs2
what?  train em to kill toolsheds?

lazs

No, train them how to fly and fight.  


ack-ack

[Schatzi]

Originally posted by dedalos

PS. you guys - unless you treat sick animals - are not really vets.  

Wow, that makes me a vet after playing this game (or any online sim) for only three months... ty .

Now, i know im still pretty much a newbie at this game. But its fun. Today i got engaged by four cons. Unfortunatly didnt use the opportunities i had for killing at least some of them, and eventually got shot down by flyboy. I commented on the fight on 200, and got a 'good flying schatzi' in return. Made me kinda proud of myself. And happy. That flaming, whining and verbally attacking each other is not all there is to MA. Even theres a lot of that going on. Including HOs, Running, Vultching...

And theres the difficulty... Vulching is needed to cap a base. Sometimes all you can get are front quarter shots. Extending is just a way to momentarily save ones life and come back when your disadvantage isnt so bad anymore.

Gangbanging or wingman tactics. Horde or Squad operation.

Its a fine and sometimes difficult line to draw. And depends a lot on someones point of view (aka whos the one that got killed in the process). Its not easy for a 'n00b' to know which is which. Im still 'scared' to take front quarter shots, cause i dont wanna HO someone.

As has already been said in this thread. If you dont care about fairplay, honor and respect to other humans, you wont learn it here.

Today a squaddie commented he was happy i wasnt peeved because he shot me numerous times in DA yesterday, during a game we played. Why? Hes just clearly better than i am. The only one id have to be peeved at is myself. Need to practice more .


I guess, it all boils down to one thing: You cant change the people playing this game. Just pick the ones you fly with/against and ignore/shoot the rest. 'Vets' or 'Newbs'.



To all the 'vets': Please keep offering your help and teaching. Its greatly appreciated by at least some. And i think those few are worth it. If someone refuses (impolitely) its his/her loss - .squelch.



to all



PS: i keep 200 tuned... its the best soap opera youve ever read!!! LMAO most times.

[Shane]

Originally posted by Stang
This is why I call guys out on channel 200 for all sorts of lame things.  It's about the only thing I can do to enlighten them at this point.

find your own schtick!




dam copycat!!

[detch01]

Originally posted by rshubert
Don't oversimplify.  Derision only pisses people off.  That's when you get the flaming "who the F are you to talk to me that way" comebacks.

ok, I'll be exactly specific here so you do understand:
In a group of peope in which the general mode of behaviour is based on a basic respect for other people, derisive actions and/or comments directed at specific acts or behaviours that are not in accordance with the general standards of action or behaviour expected in that group provides a beneficial and corrective pressure.
In a group of people in which the basic mode of behaviour is egocentric and lacking a basic respect for other individuals in the group regardless of the affect of that behaviour on the group as a whole, derision is a constant feature of behaviour, however this derision is directed at the people rather than the behaviour and is generally counter-productive if corrective derision is intended.

asw

[Shane]

Originally posted by detch01
In a group of people in which the basic mode of behaviour is egocentric and lacking a basic respect for other individuals in the group regardless of the affect of that behaviour on the group as a whole, derision is a constant feature of behaviour, however this derision is directed at the people rather than the behaviour and is generally counter-productive if corrective derision is intended.

asw

the rest of you read this, paying particular attention to the bold italics, then re-read it.  ask for help understanding it if need be.

[Muddie]

"The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers"


      You gotta be kidding me.  

 

Originally posted by NoBaddy
TC...

It is my understanding that there might be certain legal/liability issues with having an AW like training staff and that the potential downside out weights the upside.