Author Topic: Rumsfeld survival and the shot down 9-11 plane in Pennsylvania  (Read 5843 times)

Offline AWMac

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9251
Rumsfeld survival and the shot down 9-11 plane in Pennsylvania
« Reply #150 on: January 13, 2005, 04:25:06 PM »
and you're from where RUDE..........?
:rolleyes:

Offline Furious

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3243
Rumsfeld survival and the shot down 9-11 plane in Pennsylvania
« Reply #151 on: January 13, 2005, 04:30:28 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lada
Sure because europe is full of many diferent things, cultures, on relatively small piece of earth... You can drive 500 km and you will find people with diferent history who speak diferent language after next 1500 km you will find something absolutly diferent.

From the history of europe, its quite clear that integration is not something, what can be done in 4 years. But integration is happening and it goes well...


...and how many times in just the last 100 years or so have one the these "cultures"  tried to completely exterminate some of the other "cultures"?

Offline Rude

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4609
Rumsfeld survival and the shot down 9-11 plane in Pennsylvania
« Reply #152 on: January 13, 2005, 04:36:20 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AWMac
and you're from where RUDE..........?
:rolleyes:


First, I don't post crazy threads on this or any other board as I referred to...secondly, if you had read any of the many posts which I have made, you would know I'm from Kansas City....thirdly, I lived in Oklahoma myself for 13 years....you're from where in Oklahoma?

Offline GRUNHERZ

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13413
Rumsfeld survival and the shot down 9-11 plane in Pennsylvania
« Reply #153 on: January 13, 2005, 04:43:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by TheDudeDVant


Now they'll be along to tell what a nut I am and 'my' conspiracies.. lol


Exactly.  You have yet to prove any of your bizzare beliefs.

Offline JB88

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10980
Rumsfeld survival and the shot down 9-11 plane in Pennsylvania
« Reply #154 on: January 13, 2005, 05:47:01 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Rude
First, I don't post crazy threads on this or any other board as I referred to...secondly, if you had read any of the many posts which I have made, you would know I'm from Kansas City....thirdly, I lived in Oklahoma myself for 13 years....you're from where in Oklahoma?



<---- raised in nebraska,  went to college in kansas city.  great place.  miss it.  though i suspect its just a bit chilly right now.
this thread is doomed.
www.augustbach.com  

To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield. -Ulysses.

word.

Offline Elfie

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6143
Rumsfeld survival and the shot down 9-11 plane in Pennsylvania
« Reply #155 on: January 13, 2005, 06:16:36 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by TheDudeDVant
Perhaps a nazi american.. or even a nazi wannabe...  but certainly not a born citizen...

Sorry genozaur and 88. These horders on this board will not think past what they have been programmed to believe.. Its just a fact. No amount of compelling evidence will ever make them even raise a brow to ponder 'what if'...

Now they'll be along to tell what a nut I am and 'my' conspiracies.. lol


There has been no compelling evidence presented in this thread, only speculations.
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline JB88

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10980
Rumsfeld survival and the shot down 9-11 plane in Pennsylvania
« Reply #156 on: January 13, 2005, 06:22:17 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Exactly.  You have yet to prove any of your bizzare beliefs.


another one of my contentions against the
right wing spin machines.  often they will say that you have yet to "prove" something without giving so much as a modicum of creedence to the fact that had they "proved" thier own version of the facts, there would be little room for any other stories.  that said, i remain pretty certain that my extinquished colluege has actually read any of the articles that i posted which clearly show that there are certain irregularities which are glaringly obvious and subject to question.

it seems that it is easier to label someone who does not share your views as a wackjob and be done with it.

a very good stance i am sure if you never want to actually have a debate, exchange ideas or just wish to breed a little old fashioned contempt among the ranks of the intelligent.

i find it to be childish playground politics.

i would like to see more of these people actually putting up "proof" of thier arguements rather than namecalling.

i know that i certanly dont give it any credibility.
this thread is doomed.
www.augustbach.com  

To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield. -Ulysses.

word.

Offline JB88

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10980
Rumsfeld survival and the shot down 9-11 plane in Pennsylvania
« Reply #157 on: January 13, 2005, 06:33:26 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Elfie
There has been no compelling evidence presented in this thread, only speculations.


evidence definition – something that tends to establish or disprove a fact. Evidence can include documents, testimony, and other objects.


    Definition:       

   1. [n]  continuous and profound contemplation or musing on a subject or series of subjects of a deep or abstruse nature; "the habit of meditation is the basis for all real knowledge"
   2. [n]  a hypothesis that has been formed by speculating or conjecturing (usually with little hard evidence); "speculations about the outcome of the election"; "he dismissed it as mere conjecture"
   3. [n]  a message expressing an opinion based on incomplete evidence
   4. [n]  an investment that is very risky but could yield great profits; "he knew the stock was a speculation when he bought it"

 i would say that it is a little of both.

evidence, leading to speculation.
this thread is doomed.
www.augustbach.com  

To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield. -Ulysses.

word.

Offline GRUNHERZ

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13413
Rumsfeld survival and the shot down 9-11 plane in Pennsylvania
« Reply #158 on: January 13, 2005, 06:42:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by JB88
another one of my contentions against the
right wing spin machines.  often they will say that you have yet to "prove" something without giving so much as a modicum of creedence to the fact that had they "proved" thier own version of the facts, there would be little room for any other stories.  that said, i remain pretty certain that my extinquished colluege has actually read any of the articles that i posted which clearly show that there are certain irregularities which are glaringly obvious and subject to question.

it seems that it is easier to label someone who does not share your views as a wackjob and be done with it.

a very good stance i am sure if you never want to actually have a debate, exchange ideas or just wish to breed a little old fashioned contempt among the ranks of the intelligent.

i find it to be childish playground politics.

i would like to see more of these people actually putting up "proof" of thier arguements rather than namecalling.

i know that i certanly dont give it any credibility.


Thats an awful big straw man argument there. Labeling the facts of 911 as presented by the bipartisan 911 commision in their report as unsubstaniated products of "right wing spin machines" must be very convenient for lending respectabiulity your fantastic beliefs gleaned from shady websites but its inherintly dishonest and obviusly ludicrous to any objective person.

http://www.9-11commission.gov/
« Last Edit: January 13, 2005, 06:46:08 PM by GRUNHERZ »

Offline JB88

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10980
Rumsfeld survival and the shot down 9-11 plane in Pennsylvania
« Reply #159 on: January 13, 2005, 07:08:15 PM »
oh yes.  i am certain that my government never lies to me.

oh...and who was it again that fought the creation of that commission?  

hmmmm....i forget.
this thread is doomed.
www.augustbach.com  

To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield. -Ulysses.

word.

Offline GRUNHERZ

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13413
Rumsfeld survival and the shot down 9-11 plane in Pennsylvania
« Reply #160 on: January 13, 2005, 07:20:39 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by JB88
oh yes.  i am certain that my government never lies to me.

oh...and who was it again that fought the creation of that commission?  

hmmmm....i forget.


So because Bush fought AGAINST the creation of the commision it means that its illegitimate.

Plese, please keep your emotions and hatreds from muddying up your logic...

And again, you are so sceptical of this bipartisan commision yet yopu so eagerly belive any trash written up on some extesmist unsubstantiated websites...

Many of those sites argue that the Pentagon was hit by a missle and not by flight 77?

Many argue that the WTC towers were secretly rigged with implosion demolition explosives which were then set off afterthe plane strikes.

Others argue that the WTC planes were in fact remote contol CIA drones?

Do you belive any of those?  Heck prolly no, you will say, but will likely then state how "intersting" these ideas are  and ask us to disprove them...

You are just being silly, and for your sake I hope that you are just killing time, having abit of fun and trolling...

Offline JB88

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10980
Rumsfeld survival and the shot down 9-11 plane in Pennsylvania
« Reply #161 on: January 13, 2005, 07:27:23 PM »
no.  i genuinely believe that flight 93 was shot down.

irregardless. it is a sad event.

to repeat myself.

i think it was the best thing to do.

and i think the pentagon kept a lid on it.

just that.

the other stuff is interesting reading, but i wouldnt lend to much credibility to it.

like i said,  it was a gut instinct.

there have been many many many cases of government cover ups that have been proven and later admitted to.

its just not that unusual.

what i fail to appreciate is your use of the words "hate" and "wacko" when refuting any hypothesis.

i find that it takes away any credibility that your intelligent, albiet dangerously black and white logic that you may have.

dont hate bro.  not even you.
this thread is doomed.
www.augustbach.com  

To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield. -Ulysses.

word.

Offline GRUNHERZ

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13413
Rumsfeld survival and the shot down 9-11 plane in Pennsylvania
« Reply #162 on: January 13, 2005, 07:53:20 PM »
My concern is that you are letting your dislike of the Bush admin drive you seek out the most extreme views on certain topics.

Lets look at flight 93, one of the articles you posted mentined several witneses seeing some strange unknown type and unmarked white militarly plane hovering around the crash site after supposedly shotting down flight 93.  

Now considering it was common knowledge that a kill order was given on 911 and thatmany regular NG fighters were scrambled to intercept these flights doesnt it strike you as odd that the flight 93 "fighter" is some bizzare secret type with no markings. ZDoesent it strike you as something very sterotypical of a a bizzare nutty conspircy theory, ie the secret weapon.
That just doesnt make sense...

And lets look at the supposed witness statements, didnt theydescribe a twin engine plane, white or light in color, with a triple tail, flying near the crash site, apparently very low.  Well I think I know of one plane that pretty well fits all those descriptions and was in the area of flight 93 crash just before the crash in fact, and it likely was flying eraticaly and quite possible in an unsusal attitude...  Yep, you guessed it., most people are not experts on planes, heck most dont know crap about them and most eyewqitnesses (in all cases in act) are historically very poor and unreliable evidence.

Finally why would anyone hide a shootdown when the order was clearly given to shoot down planes.  Maybe a shooitdown might have been controversial before the wtc towers and pentyagon were hit, but after that all bets were off and it was a whole new game. So the very idea of a coverup given the circumstances is rater questinable.

So I really dont think there is any credibility to thse conspracy sites, any of them.

As for my view of you personally, I'm not sure why you have this nazi obession - maybe you find the grun name an easy target. As to our political differences, well some of my best friends are very liberal and we discuss politics in a heated ways even at times but we are still goodcfriends. I must call  you on this idea of my arguments being called black/white simplistic. I see a gear deal of nunance where appropriate, like in the mid east pece proicess, Iran, north korea, the US relkationship with the eu and chine etc etc. Its an often  overused ploy of some on the left to describe oponents views as black/white just as the reverse is true  of liberal handwriner labels.  

Finally wrt to these conspracy theories I really do worry that you go too far and that, of course depending on your attitude and manners of communication aboyt them,  I can easily imagine a real conversation between us where I would simply nod at anything you say just so I can leave and end the talk - not because you present uncomfortable info but because you might come across as a paranoid type thats generally no fun to be around.
 
So in conclusion I ceratinly dont hate you because you are liberal, or hate u at all. Heck some of the best ppl I met at the ah mini con are the most liberal ppl that I had the biggest arguments with, but I do genuinely worry as to why you have a need to belive in these seemingly bizzare and unsubstantiated conspracies.

Now I'm just being honest and I hope u are not hurt or offended, but I really see nothing substantial in those theories.

Offline JB88

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10980
Rumsfeld survival and the shot down 9-11 plane in Pennsylvania
« Reply #163 on: January 13, 2005, 08:05:05 PM »
yep.  there it is.

wtg.

:aok
this thread is doomed.
www.augustbach.com  

To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield. -Ulysses.

word.

Offline GRUNHERZ

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13413
Rumsfeld survival and the shot down 9-11 plane in Pennsylvania
« Reply #164 on: January 13, 2005, 08:13:33 PM »
One more thing. I'm pretty sensitive about Flight 93 since I have a mutual friend with the family of Todd Beamer, the man famous for the "Let's Roll" remark that started the passenger uprising.  This was not a random saying, it was an old family remark often used by his father.

Little deatils like this make me extremely skeptical of any bizzare theory, as I have even read some that say all the phone calls were faked which would imply that somobody had toresearch these people and spy on them to find out their speech patterns before the flight - which is extreemely bizzare and unlikely..

So I honestly hope that one day you just let gof these thories.