Rumsfeld survival and the shot down 9-11 plane in Pennsylvania

[ygsmilo]

Originally posted by genozaur


I still can't believe these media reports. Sorry for that. Maybe my 2-year experience with the Soviet AA regiment gives me the wrong angle of view on this whole fable of UNDETECTABLE AND UNDESTRUCTIBLE FLIGHT 93.

You, Borada and miko ought to get together and write a book,

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by genozaur
This is possible if you take into account the character of the President and that burden of responsibility that could be taken off the Air Force rank-and-file  would-be shooter.
This hypothesis can't be ruled out.

Didn't you see F 9/11? The president was reading a book to kindergarteners while all this was happening.

[Martlet]

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Didn't you see F 9/11? The president was reading a book to kindergarteners while all this was happening.

body double.

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by Martlet
body double.

Moore was wrong?

[JB88]

body double.  yep.

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by JB88
lol holden.

you are clearly mad.

it wasnt the freemasons, it was the local moose lodge.
 

  I am  outraged and shocked at such a venomous statement, which is clearly out and out false.
  On the day in question I was with Mr. Red Green and will testify that no such activiies such as these were discussed or carried out.

  To the rest of the questions that will surely be the result of this, I will answer in advance............" I don`t recall".

[AWMac]

At 9.58am a 911 call - the last mobile phone contact from Flight 93 - was made from one of the airliner's toilets by passenger Edward Felt.

Eye witness news from a Airliner toilet with no windows?

Mrs Mcelwain, who looks after special needs children, is further convinced the whole truth has yet to come out because of a phone call she had within hours from the wife of an air force friend of the family.

Adds a sincere touch to something that comes from "The Daily Mirror"?

That Todd Beamer and others launched an assault on the hijackers there is no doubt. The brief extracts released from audio tapes indicate a fierce struggle going on at the cockpit door.

This is about the only truth to the whole thread!

"Lets Roll!"


Mac

[WhiteHawk]

Originally posted by Mini D




This seems like an attempt to place conspiracy where there is none.  Much like the Pentagon crash.  Someone claimed that it would be easier for the government to launch a cruise missile at the pentagon and then dispose of a jet and all of it's passengers elsewhere than it would be for somoene to crash the plane into a building.  All without anyone either spotting the missile, or hearing one whisper of a rumor in regards to disposing of an aircraft loaded with passengers.

It's amazing how intricate conspiracy theories get.  It's amazing how theorists assume that it's simple to keep everyone involved quiet.  It just doesn't work that way... anywhere.

There seems to be a severe lacking of evidence presented on both sides of the fence, particularly with the pentagon crash.  
Considering what is at stake.

[genozaur]

Originally posted by Mini D
Ah... gotcha genozaur.  Though, you do realize your whole argument is based on 1) not believing the media and 2) your own ignorance.

If this would have been an active duty pilot, you'd have more of an argument.  You obviously don't understand the defense role of the Air National Guard.

As for how the plan was/wasn't found... the problem is you're only reading media reports.  Of course it's going to be confusing because the media is... are you ready for this?... NEVER accurate.

This seems like an attempt to place conspiracy where there is none.  Much like the Pentagon crash.  Someone claimed that it would be easier for the government to launch a cruise missile at the pentagon and then dispose of a jet and all of it's passengers elsewhere than it would be for somoene to crash the plane into a building.  All without anyone either spotting the missile, or hearing one whisper of a rumor in regards to disposing of an aircraft loaded with passengers.

It's amazing how intricate conspiracy theories get.  It's amazing how theorists assume that it's simple to keep everyone involved quiet.  It just doesn't work that way... anywhere.

Dear Mini D, I am one of the best of the intuitive information analysts in this small world. The fact that I'm lazy enough to not feed you with the prechewed factography does not bother me a bit. There are some good guys out there who can fulfill your daydream. Just read the following :
UA93: THE EVIDENCE

THE WITNESSES

At least SIX witnesses, including Susan Mcelwain saw a small military type plane flying around shortly BEFORE UA93 crashed. The FBI denies its existence

THE DEBRIS

The US Government insists the plane exploded on impact yet a one-ton section of the engine was found over a mile away and other light debris was found scattered over eight miles away

THE MOBILE CALL

Passenger Edward Felt made an emergency call from the plane. He spoke of an explosion and seeing some white smoke. The superviser who took the call has been gagged by the FBI

THE F-16s

UA93 was identified as a hijack at 9.16am. At 9.35am three F-16s were ordered to "protect the White House at all costs" when it turned towards the capital. At 10.06am it crashed at Shanksville, less than 10mins flying time from Washington

THE BLACK BOXS

Sources claim the last thing heard on the cockpit voice recorder is the sound of wind - suggesting the plane had been holed

THE SONIC BOOM

The FBI insists there was no military plane in the area but at 9.22am a sonic boom - caused by a supersonic jet - was picked up by an earthquake monitor in southern Pennsylvania, 60 miles away from Shanksville.

[Courtesy of JB88 (thank you, man)]

Mini D, if you can read more than a page of text a day, I would recommend you to read the whole article provided by JB88 and the information posted here by Hooligan.

[JB88]

pentagon strike - flash animaton

[genozaur]

Originally posted by Sox62
Gee,what about the pilot who shot it down?Or the ATC who guided him to it?How about the radio transmissions from the fighter?What about the HUD tape,where did it go?

Military men are ordered to keep some facts secret, and they really do it and take it quite seriously.

[AWMac]

IMAGINATION IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN KNOWLEDGE...
Albert Einstein
US (German-born) physicist (1879 - 1955)

WHEN I HEAR THE WORD "CULTURE" I REACH FOR MY GUN. (c. 1939)
Hans Johst
German propagandist (1870 - 1978), recipient of NSDAP Prize for Arts and Sciences (1935)


WHEN IN DOUBT, PISS ON IT!
MacMaw
U.S Army Retired (1975-1995)

[Mini D]

I can read what you wrote quite clearly genozaur.  It none of it adds up to anything.  As a matter of fact, most of it conflicts itself... but that's besides the point.

I find it funny that people have detailed descriptions of what was said by a person with a gag order placed on them.  Of course, I also find it odd that 90% of what you read here is generated by some atonomous soul at the end of a keyboard.  I find it odd that so many people simply must believe this to be true to prove how adept they are.

You're basically saying that the U.S. government and U.S. military working in conjunction with the civil authorities to instantly cover up a jet being shot down by fighters.  I thought our current government was supposed to be incompetent?

Oh yeah... Maybe Eagl will stop by this thread and enlighten you on how many active duty fighters are on alert in the lower 48 states as compared to national guard aircraft.  And... what the likelyhood of any military fighter not on active alert having armed missiles pre-loaded.  And... even how long it would take to take missiles from the ammo bunker, trailer it to the aircraft and then load it.  And... what kind of clearence would be necessary and exactly how much communication would be taking place prior to shooting down a civilian passenger liner.  

I do believe you're speaking with little to no experience or actual knowledge on that particular subject.  At the core of things, that's why most of these theories become easy to believe... people simply don't know any better.

[genozaur]

Originally posted by JB88
pentagon strike - flash animaton

Here's another strange thing. I wasn't really following the newscast on this side of 9-11, so without the critical information mass I can now only say NO COMMENT.

[Golfer]

Okay I'm going to do some hole shooting in the paper theory here.

Woman says "the plane is at 40-50ft above my minivan"

No.


It seems like the airplane entered a dive, the hijackers being not the most experienced pilots around overstress the aircraft and in the process dislodge an engine from its mounts, this ruins the balance and thrust of the airplane.  Hijackers still adding G's to the airplane to get it out of the dive don't compensate for asymmetrical thrust and wind up accelerating the airplanes rate of roll and before you know it...its in the dirt.


A small jet with 2 rear engines and a spoiler like that of a car sounds like an Adam A700, but that wasn't in the area because there's only prototypes built after 9/11.  An unmanned air force drone?  maybe.  I bet looking straight up at this airplane she could confuse the upside down V tail of a predator for what she thinks she saw.

How much of this story is absolutely true if the woman clames an airplane was flying 40-50 ft above her head...thats low.  Too damn low.  So low there isn't any reason to fly that low unless you're approaching/departing an airport.  I don't buy into this woman's description for a minute.  I've read too many accident reports where turboprops had their engines sputtering or 'revving' like a car engine...it doesn't work like that.  She might mean well, but she isn't close to accurate.