Hitler

[JB88]

darth tater thought that hitler was great...but only until the last moments of his life when he converted back to the good side.  he was later served "loaded" with butter, bacon bits and sour cream.

[Charon]

Hitler had a definite racial motivation (counting the Jews as a "race" in general usage) that he acted on to an illogical, counter productive (by an consideration), manic extent. It obviously wasn’t all talk where the Jews and gypsies were concerned and even where Slavic people were seen as being troublemakers in the occupied territories.

However, it was also a tool used to motivate some sectors of the population, just as the communist threat and Treaty of Versailles were used. No single issue for all of Germany, but the Nazi's were masters at using the right message(s) with the right audiences and pushing the most powerful buttons to sway action and opinion.

As for the Japanese, Hitler laid out in Mein Kampf his vision of Germany as a global power, and it was somewhat restrained. He saw each existing empire as having its own land, resources and sphere of influence. He *****ed about Germany lacking access to new colonial opportunities but noted that opportunities did exist in the East for the Third Reich to occupy and develop. The local, inferior Slavic populations would be used as unskilled farm labor, and educated just enough to go into town and get supplies for their German masters. So, I don't think he had any particular global ambitions beyond those, at least initially. Had Germany been gloriously successful, that might have changed

FWIW, you could also stand up to the Nazis and survive, but you had to have some mass. The individual didn’t dare, but organized groups were successful both before and during the war. The resistance to euthanasia program was one example. I believe the wives of partial Jews also marched in Berlin and were able to hold off planned action. Hitler knew the weaknesses of a dictatorship, and that you can’t be a successful dictator without the support of most of the population, and he worked to keep mass unrest down as best he could.  That’s one reason why he waited so long to go on a full war production footing, since he witnessed first hand the domestic discontent that can breed from hardship at the end of WW1.

Charon

[spitfiremkv]

Originally posted by RTStuka


This is a man who no one will ever be able to accuratly perdict what actions he would  have or have not taken. I mean he lost the eastern front against Russia because he was so doped up that he didnt know what was going on.

 

yet almost everyone from the German High Command obeyed him until the very last moments. wtf were they thinking??!?!?

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by GScholz
Um ... I've already said Hitler was a racist; please pay attention.  

Yes said he might have been. Isn't that an honest question?




Although I have no problem imagining Hitler trying for world domination, that was never one of his actual goals during WWII. Hitler was even reluctant to attack Britain.

Nazi-Germany's military ambitions of WWII were the domination of continental Europe, western Russia and the Caucasus. In fact Germany only got involved in North-Africa because their ally Italy was getting their butts kicked by the British.

Hitler WAS going to attack Britain.  Had he used his brain instead of listening to his minions, Hitler might have succeeded.  

I just get the belief that after awhile HAD Hitler "succeeded".  He would have expanded.  

Karaya

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by Boroda
Please, can you try to explain your thoughts in other words?

Germany supporting Serbia in WWI?! Tito suspending Barbarossa for 6 months? All operation in Yugoslavia and Greece took about one month and required 1/10 of the force planned for Barbarossa.

Operation Barbarossa was stalled for 5-6 months.  Because of INTREPID.  Read "A Man called INTREPID".  Tito, was the main factor.  Actually, I've read this in other books as well.   It's quite common knowledge.  I shouldn't have to explain this.

Karaya

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by lada
rofl man ..... better do not comment about this because now it must be clear to everybody with basic education , that you have no clue about history of central/eastern europe

I think you have proved to ALOT of people within the last week how much of an idiot you can be.  

You stand on the shoulders of other lada.  You are weak, ask Pat for a vowel.

Karaya

[Masherbrum]

Origanally posted by Lada
so your statement

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by rshubert
Some of the Czechs "annexed" were part of the Austro-Hungarian empire. So they would blend in fine.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey genius, why are cramming words down Rshubert's throat?  He NEVER POSTED THIS.  Learn to ******* read before insulting others.  

You got caught, and you got caught good.  

Karaya

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Germany certainly did not support Serbia in WW1.  German opposition to serbian aims is exacly what spread WW1 to all of europe.

Tito had no bearing on the delay of Barbarossa. It mostly the Italian's fault because their disasters against the Brits and Greeks necessitated German intervention in early 1941.  Further some Yugoslav british leaning army officers revolted against a pro-German government so Yugoslavia was invaded too.

Tito WAS MOST DEFINATELY involved in the delay of Barbarossa.   The whole Balkans Crusade did exactly what the allies wanted the Germans to do.  Stall the Germans in the Dead of winter, it did.  Germany IGNORES the Balkans.  The outcome of 5-6 months of "better weather" might have been enough to turn the tide.

Karaya

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by patrone
I think the jews themself are quite proud of being jews.

I sugest you read about things weaselsan, before you utter anything.

I think you should follow your OWN Advice.  You had to edit this post I am partially quoting?  That first sentence is a gem.  

Karaya

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by bunch
The Krauts were nowhere near the A-bomb.  Werner Heisenberg was sitting on the project.  That is why the premise here is so absurd.  SWOTL or not, war is over by the end of 1945.

When the ships from Norway were sunk on the way to Germany with the Heavy Water, it set them back 4-5 years.

I agree with your statements sir.

Karaya

[fd ski]

Originally posted by GScholz
That would be Bolsheviks and Communists. I may be splitting hairs, but that is political persecution not racism. The people of the Soviet Union (in particular the Ukrainians) were the single largest contributor of non-German volunteers to the Waffen-SS.

You're not getting it, people in poland, russia or more easter europian nations were being picked up on the streets at random and send to concentration camps - so called "lapankla", anyone even suspected of anything could be send to camps, basically at any good occasion, you'd be send to camp.

If you were a pole, looking like  a jew, you'd get send to camp.
If you were a christian, looking like a jew, you'd get send to camp.
and so on and on and on.

Slavs were next on the list, only thing that saved them for extermination enmasse is the ending of the war. Had it lasted, it wouldn't have been pretty.
Still doesn't change the fact that 6 million civilians died during WWII in poland, and that's excluding Jews from the statistic.

As for people serving in Werhmacht, don't get too excited.
Polish man were sometimes forced into joining the service. Enlistment offer looked like this - join or we'll shoot your whole family.

Ukranias had a bit of a problem with Uncle Joe, one can hardly blame them for helping germans then.

It ain't always black and white.

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by GScholz
Karaya, please get an education. Practically everything you have posed in this thread has been factually incorrect.


Fd ski, I do get it. I'm just separating the random persecution of civilians from the definition of racism.

So William Stephenson is a liar?  He was called "INTREPID", he answered ONLY to Churchill and Roosevelt.  

I have an education, time for some of you to READ MORE.  I realize some want to troll on this board, heck, we had a rarity in this forum.  Someone so hellbent on being "right", this person misquoted another BBS member.  It is THIS PERSON that needs the education.  Save your "know it all rhetoric" for someone who is in the same boat as YOU GS.  The person's name?  patrone.  But then again, you guys are already spooning each other's egos.  

Fd ski is right, YOU really don't GET IT.  

Karaya

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Masherbrum
Operation Barbarossa was stalled for 5-6 months.  Because of INTREPID.  Read "A Man called INTREPID".  Tito, was the main factor.  Actually, I've read this in other books as well.   It's quite common knowledge.  I shouldn't have to explain this.

Karaya

Funny, I have this book on the shelf, time to finally read it after maybe 10 years after i'll run out of easy reading.

I am reading Gabriel Gorodetsky's "Myth of the Icebreaker" now. He has a whole chahter about Yugoslavia and European politics in 1941. He says that Barbarossa definetly was NOT delayed for such a long time. The whole operation in Balkans took one month, and only one division was actually sent there instead of going to Poland.

Prince Pavel was overthrown one month before Germans attacked Yugoslavia, and he was one of the Hitler's allies. I really need to read that book you mentioned.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Masherbrum
Tito WAS MOST DEFINATELY involved in the delay of Barbarossa.   The whole Balkans Crusade did exactly what the allies wanted the Germans to do.  Stall the Germans in the Dead of winter, it did.  Germany IGNORES the Balkans.  The outcome of 5-6 months of "better weather" might have been enough to turn the tide.

Karaya

The situation was much more complicated IMHO.

Biggest problem was that British Foreign Office sincerely believed that Soviet-German alliance will last for a long time, and it ws impossible to break it attracting USSR to the allied side.

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by Masherbrum
So William Stephenson is a liar?  He was called "INTREPID", he answered ONLY to Churchill and Roosevelt.  

I have an education, time for some of you to READ MORE.  I realize some want to troll on this board, heck, we had a rarity in this forum.  Someone so hellbent on being "right", this person misquoted another BBS member.  It is THIS PERSON that needs the education.  Save your "know it all rhetoric" for someone who is in the same boat as YOU GS.  The person's name?  Lada.  But then again, you guys are already spooning each other's egos.  

Fd ski is right, YOU really don't GET IT.  

Karaya