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Author Topic: U.N. troops 'die in Congo ambush'  (Read 3589 times)

Offline Martlet

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U.N. troops 'die in Congo ambush'
« Reply #90 on: February 26, 2005, 09:57:50 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
Yes and in less dangerous areas they DO send civilian observers. Soldiers are more capable of defending themselves and relief workers, that's the only reason they are sent. Why can't you get this simple concept through your head?


Defend themselves?  If they were asked to be there, why must they defend themselves?
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Offline Holden McGroin

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U.N. troops 'die in Congo ambush'
« Reply #91 on: February 26, 2005, 11:19:26 PM »
The UN should not have sent anyone in without a clear and coherent exit strategy.
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Offline GRUNHERZ

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U.N. troops 'die in Congo ambush'
« Reply #92 on: February 26, 2005, 11:30:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
From forces not in the control of the conflicting parties. Like protecting relief convoys from bandits. Countries like the Congo are not exactly model societies of law and order ...


Do both conflicting parties have to invite the UN?

If not, or actually in any case then, who is to say the attackers might not be acting on orders from their commanders to harass the UN and encourage them to go out so they can contunie their actions unobserved...
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Offline Toad

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U.N. troops 'die in Congo ambush'
« Reply #93 on: February 26, 2005, 11:34:02 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
Yes and in less dangerous areas they DO send civilian observers. Soldiers are more capable of defending themselves and relief workers, that's the only reason they are sent. Why can't you get this simple concept through your head?


It's so simple you don't get it.

If you have to send soldiers to fight back only if attacked... then it's obviously not safe enough to send the civilians at all.

Especially since you laid out the exact highly restrictive. ROE for the bad guys before your arrival.

In fact, sending civilians and/or soldiers to an area where there really is no peace and sending them under ROE that makes them easy targets for the bad guys is a real simple STUPID concept.
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Offline NUKE

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U.N. troops 'die in Congo ambush'
« Reply #94 on: February 26, 2005, 11:35:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
The UN should not have sent anyone in without a clear and coherent exit strategy.


:)
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Offline Toad

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U.N. troops 'die in Congo ambush'
« Reply #95 on: February 26, 2005, 11:36:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
From forces not in the control of the conflicting parties. Like protecting relief convoys from bandits. Countries like the Congo are not exactly model societies of law and order ... but I don't expect an ignorant like you to understand that.


But of course they cannot attack and root out forces not under the control of the conflicting parties.. like bandits.

They cannot police these societies that are not model societies of law and order. They can only be targets.
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Offline Toad

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U.N. troops 'die in Congo ambush'
« Reply #96 on: February 27, 2005, 12:54:33 AM »
Under those circumstances, nobody. The ROE are beyond stupid.

Old saying around here "It's always easier and usually cheaper to just do it right the first time."

When they get the ROE right, then maybe the UN will actually do something.


Some "Freedom Fighters of the 4th Tuesday in May" group attacks a UN civil or military operation then UN troops ought to hunt them down and remove them as a problem. Period.

Do that a few times and maybe the UN civilians won't need so much guarding anymore.

The way the invite trouble now is just sad.
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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Siaf__csf

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U.N. troops 'die in Congo ambush'
« Reply #97 on: February 27, 2005, 02:18:32 AM »
I don't understand this whole hate thing. I've never hated anything american as far as normal life goes. The only thing that I really hate are the attitudes I face on this UBB.

Are people really so insecure that they think anyone outside US hates thier guts like crazy? As ridiculous as it sounds probably, I carry the american flag on my leather jacket most days and I'm not ashamed of it. If you wonder why, the jacket is an avirex aviation jacket.

I get extremely offended when people here label everyone from Europe as anti-us (me along them) and try to idioticly convince ME of my own opinnions.

If a few european posters have disagreed with your foreign policy or something else, how does that turn into general hate of american people? It's like you can't take any criticism without immediately pulling the hate card and hide behind it.

I constantly have to remind myself that this is only a UBB and you guys really do not represent the average population of america OR europe.
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Offline GRUNHERZ

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U.N. troops 'die in Congo ambush'
« Reply #98 on: February 27, 2005, 02:25:24 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
One, like in Bosnia we could only operate in BiH territory, not BSA.

The second part is irrelevant. The UN will stay as long as they are welcome. If for some reason they find themselves no longer welcome they will leave. If the inviting government cannot control their forces that is likely to happen.


Hmm. Can ypu clear something up. Lets say you have two warring parties.

Party A = Does not want UN there, maybe because they feel they have upper hand or want to hide something or whatever...

Party B =  Wants UN there for some reason..

Lets say B invites the UN in and A does not. So party A clearly expresses its preference that it does not want the UN to get involved.

What happends?

If the UN comes and gets into the area of party B and later some units of party A start attacking the UN in areas of party B, what happends?  

I ask because in the reply above you seemed only to mention that the UN would leave if attacked by the party who invited it in - in our case party B? But what of attacks by the other side?

Also what if Party A overruns areas once held by Party B that might have UN troops in them, what can the UN do? Or what if Party A had taken areas allready, can the UN legally press to operate within the former re\cognized borders of B or does it just depend on who is in charge at the particular time?

Also another question, what about artilerly? Can party A simply shell UN/NGO areas from within its territory without the UN being able to operate in party A areas and strike back?
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Offline ATA

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U.N. troops 'die in Congo ambush'
« Reply #99 on: February 27, 2005, 02:59:48 AM »
Politics......is there anything "dirtyer" than that
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Offline Toad

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U.N. troops 'die in Congo ambush'
« Reply #100 on: February 27, 2005, 08:44:07 AM »
"Would kill millions".

Did you ever consider that maybe, just maybe if the UN showed some balls it would SAVE millions?

800,000 Rwandan dead. While the Blue Hats had to stand there with their thumbs up.

There might be a period when the UN didn't get "invited" but I think hungry bellies might eventually win out.

As for hate.. it's not hate at all. You want to know why some of us think the UN is worthless. You got an answer and suddenly we "hate" Euros. Lol. Too funny.
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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Martlet

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U.N. troops 'die in Congo ambush'
« Reply #101 on: February 27, 2005, 09:11:22 AM »
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Originally posted by GScholz
No they can "actively" defend themselves against renegade forces and bandits, however they need the authorization of the local government to do so. Preferably the local forces can deal with the situation and let the UN stay neutral.


So is raping the locals a good defense?
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Offline Zulu7

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U.N. troops 'die in Congo ambush'
« Reply #102 on: February 27, 2005, 09:13:20 AM »
Siaf  because they are feeble minded fools!

;)
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Offline Martlet

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U.N. troops 'die in Congo ambush'
« Reply #103 on: February 27, 2005, 09:16:39 AM »
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Originally posted by Zulu7
Siaf  because they are feeble minded fools!

;)


That's funny coming from the guy that argued vehemently that there are more democrat veterans than republican in congress, even after proven wrong.
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Offline Zulu7

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U.N. troops 'die in Congo ambush'
« Reply #104 on: February 27, 2005, 09:21:56 AM »
Martlet you are mistaken
 I argued no such thing. Go back and read that thread. You might notice that I disagreed with Greentail, who I believe started that one. I believe what you are saying has absolutely no relevance. Go do your homework old chap you are putting words into my mouth that I did not say! I do not give a damn whether your Beloved bush served or not.
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