Will ToD work or will it be another CT

[killnu]

last time i was in there, i called more names in the 1/2 i was there than a whole night in the MA.  they told me to go back to MA, so i did.  i dont understand why the CT guys post how great it is, or wish they had more participation, yet when new guys(me) come in, they insult them and tell them to go back to MA.  one heck of a recruiting style there.

[mechanic]

CT can be the best fights I've found in AH anytime.

plank is an easy kill but will happily HO you in anyplane , and storch always makes sure he has the advantage,  but they are polite and fun to fly against or with in my experience.

[hubsonfire]

To digress from the CT gang pursefighting, I'm gonna go with Howitzer on this one. Once I have some real details or specs, I might form an opinion. I'd like to have those things now, but I'll be patient. Hope it lives up to/exceeds the hype. (also hope no gamey airstarts. Only takes a matter of minutes to get to strato alts, but that's just my opinion )

[storch]

Originally posted by mechanic
CT can be the best fights I've found in AH anytime.

plank is an easy kill but will happily HO you in anyplane , and storch always makes sure he has the advantage,  but they are polite and fun to fly against or with in my experience.

1. Try to secure every advantage before attacking.  If possible, try to keep the sun behind you.

2.  Always carry through your attack when you have started it.

3. Fire only at close range and only when your opponenet is properly in your sights.

4.  Always keep your eyes on your opponent.  Never be deceived by ruses.

5. In any form of attack it is essential to attack your opponent from behind.

6.  If your opponent dives on you, do not try to evade his onslaught but fly to meet it.

7.  When over enemy lines always remember your line of retreat.

8.  Always attack in groups of four or six.  When the fights break up into individual combat take care that several do not attack one opponent.

Tell me two things please.  Where do I fail in faithfully following this dicta.  Who authored it?

[plank]

Originally posted by mechanic
CT can be the best fights I've found in AH anytime.

plank is an easy kill but will happily HO you in anyplane , and storch always makes sure he has the advantage,  but they are polite and fun to fly against or with in my experience.

LOL, hey it's the only way I can get a kill sometimes. I usually reserve the HO for when I already got downed 15 times in a row and it makes me feel better

It was good to see alot of the guys from the MA in there, batfink especially. Aside from my ho'ing we had some good fights and he showed me the proper way to tool someone with a p-40. Now, if only I could do the same.

Hope you continue frequenting the CT mate.

[Toad]

If they borrowed the mission/objective idea from America's Army, put me in historical situations (or semi-historical) and set decent victory conditions for each side (even if the victory conditions were different for each side) and set the timer around 15 minutes (yeah, even if it meant air start) for each round in the match...

I'd be IN.

[humble]

Plank,

I can only base my opinion on my own experience...I used to fly the CT all the time. Since I dont care what plane I'm in I'd always go to the side with the lowest #'s.  The last time I stopped in it happened to be during the okinowa setup...since allies were dominant I launched some flavor of rice rocket off the southern tip and flew out toward the allied dar bar...was 10+ guys in a gaggle...which turned into a 1 on gang....upped and repeated...commented on 200 and got back a mouthful of #$@$ from storch and company....so I left. Just that simple, and that was same as the last 5,6 times I'd tried the CT.

Now I'd of happily flown 1 on 2,3 even 4 all night...but it reaches a point where it has no entertainment value. I could care less about score but I want some measure of "quality" fight.

Over the last 18 months I've found both a higher caliber of skill and game play in the MA then in the CT....by far...and 99.5% of the population

[Pongo]

The TOD could work and still suffer the fate of the CT.
Some of the characteristics of the TOD are no brainers.
-Historic aircraft matchups.
-Historic Maps.
-Some mechanism to force players to stick to the mission they have been assigned.
-Some mechanism to generate those missions in a way that will create fights.
-Yet some mechanism to encourage people to pursue the mission to anything short of dying.

Some of the characteristics of the TOD are a little more difficult to envision.
-Ranking system
-Missions that cant be gamed into oblivion.
-Numbers ballancing.
-AI behavior.
-Death penalty.
-sitting between missions.

I think the mission server will have to note who is in the "tower" and ask how long they will wait for a mission.  Propose a mission that would take only the people waiting in the tower and then scale it as more might become available.  I see the server forceing side ballanceing or forcing the heavy numbers side to areas where there will be little oposition and only keep a relative ballanced force to oppose the enemy.
IE 20 Germans and 10 brits on. Send 1 Brit in a mosqito on a recce mission and 4 Germans to intercept. Do that on two fronts and leave 8 Brits to fight the 12 Germans atacking shiping.
I guess you could just send two groups of Germans to areas where there would be no enemy or to intercept AI only formations but something has to be done to level numbers.

[Schaden]

Originally posted by storch
1. Try to secure every advantage before attacking.  If possible, try to keep the sun behind you.

2.  Always carry through your attack when you have started it.

3. Fire only at close range and only when your opponenet is properly in your sights.

4.  Always keep your eyes on your opponent.  Never be deceived by ruses.

5. In any form of attack it is essential to attack your opponent from behind.

6.  If your opponent dives on you, do not try to evade his onslaught but fly to meet it.

7.  When over enemy lines always remember your line of retreat.

8.  Always attack in groups of four or six.  When the fights break up into individual combat take care that several do not attack one opponent.

Tell me two things please.  Where do I fail in faithfully following this dicta.  Who authored it?

Boelcke 1891 - 1916

http://www.jastaboelcke.de/

[hubsonfire]

Hmmm, maybe missions of different sizes and  some with more modest goals? Just huge 8AF raids late in the war wouldn't be very appealing for very long. I'd personally think that smaller missions in smaller terrains with more modest goals would be a better start. Milkruns/nuisance raids in mossies, tank/vehicle busting in the african theater, il2/yak runs on the eastern front, fighter sweeps by the LW, etc. While more terrains might need to be available to start, surely smaller terrains with more limited mission scope would be easier to setup/troubleshoot and acclimate people who're used to the MA style of fighting. As intrigued by the idea of ToD as I am, if its nothing but escort duty for high alt bombers, I'll stick with the MA and the occasional spec events.

Just thinking out loud here, don't mind me.

[VWE]

sorry if you dont like hearing the truth...the CT is dead because you and guys like you beat it to death.

Seeing that you don't spend more than 1 or 2 hops in the CT each time you come in humble, I rank your opinion down in the sticky stuff lying around the bottom of the barrel.

[Longdist]

I fly TOD on Fridays as well and I don't think the TOD is anything like the CT.  Even though TOD is based on a given battle or theater like the CT is, the TOD is more mission based.  In the TOD it isn't enough just to kill the other guy, you have to stop him from completing his/her mission.  It's that very thing that makes the TOD a blast to fly in.
 
If I'm in a bomber and hit my target (say a fuel dump) then get shot down, I still win because the target was destroyed and in the following mission that fuel isn't available.  It doesn't matter what plane set they get the next mission because they're only going to have 25% fuel and with fuel burn set to 1.5 or 2.0, they all become gliders real quick and the lesser fighters rule the day.

Another thing is the numbers.  CT has unlimited fighters and bombers of a given set.  In TOD the numbers are set to a given amount to match the ratio of the historic battle.  Example, in CT the N1K is in unlimited numbers even if perked.  In TOD on a given day there might only be 15 N1K's and when those are gone, they're gone.

The CT is only different from the MA in that only certain planes are available, but the fighting is still the same, furballing on the deck in among the trees.  Which is fine by me because the pilots in the CT tend to have better flying skills in a given plane set.

However the TOD offers a change in that it's more realistic.  If two p47's sneak in and sink the CV my squad just upped from and we kill them my squad of 20 gets two kills where as the Jugs get to split 20 kills between them because there is no other place for us to land without some serious lean flying and I have seen just that kind of thing happen.

That is why most that fly TOD, like it.  It has outcome and effect.  Something that the CT just doesn't have.  Most of the guys I know in TOD really don't care what side they are on, most have fun flying for both sides, as do I.  If you want to make the CT more like a real event in history, then do as they do in TOD, make it just one life.  You'd be surpised at how fast you learn to make a P-40B to sit up and bark if you know that you only get one chance.

OK, I'll get off the soap box now.  Personally I think it's the dweeb in the cockpit and how he fights, not the performance of his/her aircraft.  I predict great things for the CT in the future, and even better missions to follow in the TOD.  I would suggest you fly both, and on both sides.

[SELECTOR]

I thought this post was to discuss the up and comming TOD...
but alas its typical of the likes of some of the CT gang to spoil..

by the way storch .. i enjoyed the childish name calling and threats in MA the other night on private channel.. my wife and I laughed and laughed... what was it you put up on private text,, somthing like " if you say anything bad about the Ct im gonna kill you"? and what was that name you called me ? "tw@t"?it was somthing like that...  thats the sort of thing that keeps me and my squad out of CT....nice one..

[storch]

Originally posted by humble
Plank,

I can only base my opinion on my own experience...I used to fly the CT all the time. Since I dont care what plane I'm in I'd always go to the side with the lowest #'s.  The last time I stopped in it happened to be during the okinowa setup...since allies were dominant I launched some flavor of rice rocket off the southern tip and flew out toward the allied dar bar...was 10+ guys in a gaggle...which turned into a 1 on gang....upped and repeated...commented on 200 and got back a mouthful of #$@$ from storch and company....so I left. Just that simple, and that was same as the last 5,6 times I'd tried the CT.

Now I'd of happily flown 1 on 2,3 even 4 all night...but it reaches a point where it has no entertainment value. I could care less about score but I want some measure of "quality" fight.

Over the last 18 months I've found both a higher caliber of skill and game play in the MA then in the CT....by far...and 99.5% of the population

I'm never, ever on 200 ever.  I never start the verbage but will gladly , joyfully respond to an assault.  If you treat me with civility I respond in kind.  Plus unless you repeatedly change your handle I've never even seen you on.  that in and of itself speaks volumes about you.

let's analyze your last statement.


1.  I usually fly axis not always but usually.  so perhaps memory fails and you flew allied.

2.  I'm never on 200 so perhaps you meant Ch1 and memory again fails you.

3.  you were having a bad day and you "commented" on ch 200 to a guy that wasn't on there and he responded?  hmmm I don't get it.  you don't want to catch attitude from me then don't engage me.

4.  the only guy I recall being purposely rude to is Dedalos.  He watched me turn for five minutes with an opponent.  when I finally got the advantage on the opponent he drops in and picks the guy.  I told him that I didn't appreciate that and that I didn't need his help.  It was a very well flown fight between me in a Ki61 and the opponent (who I never even fired at) in an FM2.  Dedalos responded with a rude comment and I turn was rude to Dedalos.  I asked him not to even give me a check six ever again.

let me offer some solutions, this what I would do if you annoyed me.

1. .squelch storch

or

2. find storch's address, visit him and kick his arse.

or

3. stfu and play the stupid game.

some of you guys are real gems.

[Jackal1]

Sorta strange to me seeing the air start launch idea being tossed around for TOD.
From what I`ve seen about TOD you could more than easily say I am less than interested in it, but the things left unsaid might, just might, lure me in after the start if enough people who I value their opinions gave it a big enough rating. The things that have been unclear and left unsaid such as realism and immersion factor, if good enough would be about the only thing that would get me interested enough in it to give it a whirl in a pinch. I`m just not much of a box gamer i guess. What would be a definite cinch to keep me totaly uninterested would be the implementation of air starts. That would seal the deal by taking away realism and even the most minute chance of immersion for me.
  Just goes to show what HT has to deal with.