Killshooter...

[Naytch]

I dont see any drawback to making killshooter work like in the TA. HT could make it so that one will not hear any pings. If there is a teamkiller shooting at me, what will I care? Most likely 10 minutes later that dweeb will be ammo-less and get picked off by the first P-40 to cross his path, and I can go and fight un-hindered. The dweeb still ends up losing while the guy who gets shot will live, same as before.

Now, I agree it is very bad SA if u shoot a freindly by accident, but isn't even worse SA on the part of the guy who flew into the bullets? The 2nd thing one looks for in a fight is any incoming tracers coming to tear him up (1st thing being nme cons)

So if killshooter is made to work like in the TA, ppl who get shot will not notice (as always), teamkiller dweebs wont be able to teamkill (as always), and accidents will be forgiven.

I beleive these results should satisfy everyone, exept teamkillers of course.

[Darkish]

One thing yet to be mentioned is a conga line of 5 guys on your six.  With kill shooter as is, there's a chance a couple might take each other out - which in all honesty is one of the funniest things you can witness.

Your implementation Jet, would only encourage more spraying from people desperate for kills.

[Blammo]

Jet:
Morhpeus and Keassa are right.  They are also just trying to be helpful (even when they are under no obligation to do so).  If it doesn't apply to you, don't squeel so much.  Some one will benefit from their insight.

Look, I used to feel the same way about Killshooter.  And there are tons of good arguments for getting rid of it.  However, if it were removed you would learn real quick how many shoulder-shooters there are in the game (as your plane goes down in a flaming heap).

I have also thought long and hard about the "guns doing no damage" option or the "bullets pass right through" idea.  Two problems:

1)  It would encourage more people to shoot around and through you.  This would reduce your effeciency as when you saw the bullets flying passed you the tendency is to think "bad-guy-that-I-didn't-see" and evade (or at least look back, which means taking your eye off the target).

2)  It would allow people to use other planes as shields.  You and I are diving in on an Osti with you in the lead.  You get the face full of cannon while I get the kill on the Osti.  You and I are attacking a bomber formation and I am in the lead...I eat his defense guns while you rake his formation.

And don't think it wouldn't happen, because it would.

Beyond that, if you think the griping, whining, complaining, etc gets bad now, I would hate to see it if Killshooter were gone.

To summarize:  I agree with you.  However, until a better option comes along I think kill shooter is the best alternative right now.  I know that I may not speak for everyone, but time has taught me this truth.

By the way, don't be so defensive..."you" does not always mean YOU.  Sometimes it is just a specific term applied to the general populace.  In addition, learn to recognize help when it is offered.

Just sayin, is all...

[Edbert1]

I had a numbers guy shooting at me while rolling down the runway just last night, he even fired his rockets at me. I politely told him to shoot the red planes not the green ones and he stopped, even said thanks. I'd have been pretty PO'ed if he kilt me.

I can think of nothing but negatives if killshooter were not there, the only thing close to a positive woule be realism, but the MA is no place for any sort of realism!

[Ghosth]

Last Jetb if you did a comprehensive search. Going back over the 5 or so years since AH started with its first beta.

You would realise that someone has started a thread exactly like this one at least every other month for the last 5 years.

Yes your new to AH (not the boards, but the sim) and all this is cool. You have cool new ideas to make it even better.

The thing is you havn't really thought those ideas all the way through to see where they lead.

We who have been here a while have seen the killshooter/collisions/ditch/landing threads come & go as regular as clockwork.

So when someone like Morph gently tries to steer you right, listen next time.

Cause we've been down this path before, we know where it leads.  And we'd rather not see you go off the deep end. Ok?

For now accept that all the ingame settings are as good as they can be made with current technolegy. They are set in stone and won't be changed any day soon.

[Clifra Jones]

Originally posted by jetb123
Yeah you keep trying to imput that i need better SA, but when did i say that this happens to me alot?

Yes you did, you said it happens daily. If it's happening to you that much I can only deduce one thing, it's your fault.

I am not a long time vet. I have been flying AH for 8 months now and I have been affected by kill shooter a total of 2 times. I am also not to vain to admit that both times were my fault.

This was just an idea that came to my mind, and i thought it would fit nice. You still cant come up with a good reason to keep killshooter.  

Maybe he/you/I can't but someone else can:

Posted by HiTech 02-25-2002:
The problem comes in how to apply the damage when you are shooting at different plane type , i.e. you could be shooting eng 4 on a plane with 1 eng.

To over come this all damage from kill shooter is applied to the center fuse.


It never ceases to amaze me how people love to blame the kill shooter on the other guy diving in.
If the plane is above you and he is diving in, he can't even see you.

It's realy simple.
It is the shooter responsiblity to make sure he is clear to fire. No if's, no ands, no buts.

For those complaning about some one flying infront of them.

Read this again.

It is the shooter responsibliyt to make sure he is clear to fire.

One more time.

It is the shooter responsiblity to make sure he is clear to fire.

And in case you are not clear on my views on the subject.

It is the shooter responsiblity to make sure he is clear to fire.

Think of it as an instant court marshal and a sentance of a firing squad.

HiTech

Again in the same thread replying to Tac

Unfortunataly responsibity ends when the tracers are flying. People fly into the bullet stream.

So you wan't the kill so bad,want points so bad, that you are willing to risk killingl a friendly.

Read again.

It is the shooters responsiblity to make sure he is clear to fire.

If some one is diving in you are NOT clear to fire.


Thats a bit off i'd say. Sure, they may dive into a con and not see you behind him, but they sure as heck can see the tracers you're firing his way.
Again .
It is the shooters responsiblity to make sure he is clear to fire.


Point is, some people just dont give a damn and fly in there regardless.
Again.
It is the shooters responsiblity to make sure he is clear to fire.


Accidents happen as well, **** happens. But penalizing the person that didnt cause the accident by having 1 or 2 killshooter pings whacking him off the sky doesnt sound right.

This would be like blaming a guy for hiting your car after you just ran a red light, because "well he saw me".

Again.
You want the kill so bad,want points so bad, that you are willing to risk killing a friendly.

It is the shooters responsiblity to make sure he is clear to fire.

All I'd like to see is a few more leniency towards hits received before causing damage, give the victims a chance to stop firing before killshooting themselves (target fixation, press trigger, BIG green icon plane jumps in front split second surprise, trigger still pressed, *plinkplink* *BOOM* you go).

Again.
You want the kill so bad,want points so bad, that you are willing to risk killing a friendly.

It is the shooter responsiblity to make sure he is clear to fire.


Tac everything you are aguing is you wanting the kill no different then the guy diving in wants the kill.

Only thing is the other guy is in a better position for the kill than you are. What you are acusing other people of, you are more guilty of yourself.


The rule is simple.

It is the shooter responsiblity to make sure he is clear to fire.


HiTech

And

1. Some form of control either png or kill shooter must be in the game. It dosn't take a bunch, It only takes one person to abuse the system to destroy everyones day. If one persone choses to shoot friendlies it leaves everyone else with no choice but to shoot him, with in mins 1 big freindly only furbal erupts.

This point has been proven every time kill shooter has been off, take it as a fact.

2. PNG also has problems. I rember a few times when Kite and I were winging together that I would end up PNG, not sure why but some how Kite and I would always end up in the the same space and I would end up pinging him. I would ended up having to fly for a new country when I would rather not have.

3. Almost always it's the shooter fault for the none intential friendly fire, most people say that the other person just got in my way, but thats not realy the case, normaly the person who "gets in the way" is comming from above and has no idea the shooter is there it's the person with the hand on the trigers job to not shoot friendlies, why should the guy getting shot take the penalty for the shooter screwing up?

This is not a new topic, just like how collision detection works, both system are not perferct , but there isn't a perfect answer to the problem.

HiTech

And

Posted by HiTech 3-19-2005
And before this thread gets going. Don't sugest somthing that has all ready been suggested because unless a new idea comes up ,(which is doubtfull) kill shooter will not be changing.

HiTech

I seriously doubt that your idea is new, I have not researched it but, again, I seriously doubt it.

So, it ain't changing, stop whinning about it. If some dweeb dives in front of you, take your finger off the trigger.  Complain to him on country channel, on range vox but as HT says, "it's the shooters responsibility to make sure it is clear to fire".

[jetb123]

Originally posted by Ghosth
Yes your new to AH (not the boards, but the sim) and all this is cool. You have cool new ideas to make it even...

For the last time. I started playing aceshigh in winter of 2003.
Long before I even registered on forum. So yes i am new to ah2, but im not new to the whole aspect of the game, and i dont see how everybody thinks i just found this forum. Started posting, and then suddenly just joined the game.

[jetb123]

Originally posted by Clifra Jones
So, it ain't changing, stop whinning about it. If some dweeb dives in front of you, take your finger off the trigger.  Complain to him on country channel, on range vox but as HT says, "it's the shooters responsibility to make sure it is clear to fire".

And again. Who said i am whining about this? It is only a ingame suggestion, and that is why its in this forum, "Gameplay Feedback and Requests" This is simply me throwing out and Idea, and hitech doesnt need to do it or not. It just hit my mind, and seem like the most convient thing to do if I was running the game. Im sure there would be alot less threads like this, but no this isnt a whine thread, and people thinking it is are just completely ignorant.

[hitech]

Yep brand new Idea, Only considered this option over 12 years ago. And it has only been suggest a couple of dozen times after that. The idea sucked then and still does now.

HiTech

[Clifra Jones]

Originally posted by jetb123
And again. Who said i am whining about this? It is only a ingame suggestion, and that is why its in this forum, "Gameplay Feedback and Requests" This is simply me throwing out and Idea, and hitech doesnt need to do it or not. It just hit my mind, and seem like the most convient thing to do if I was running the game. Im sure there would be alot less threads like this, but no this isnt a whine thread, and people thinking it is are just completely ignorant.

Sorry jet, but a whine in this environment is based on sentance structure and your sentance structure only brings one thing to  my mind, and that's a whine.  You want something changed because it is adversly affecting you. What you are basicly saying is "I can't, or won't, change my own behavior so I want the rules to be changed". As a parent, that sounds like the classic whine to me.

No offense meant but, an idea without any basis in research or facts is, well useless.  It also is very tiresome to have to respond to these types ideas time and time again. In your eyes the idea has validity but in the eyes of the experienced it does not. You may not have experience with this but in my profession I have to deal with it all the time. I only wish I could respond to them as susinctly and directly as HT can here. Unfortunatly I have to live in the Corporate PC world and try to politely tell a VP that his idea is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

You say it seemed convenient. Convenient for whom? You? Who seems, by your own words, to be unable to stop shooting when friendlies are in front of you. To me? As one who does not use tracers I should have to put up with your tracers flying past my plane interfering with my shot. Warning the bandit to break because he sees your tracers. Now don't reply that I should not dive in front of you as I have had numerous incidents of players saddling up on my 6 and firing past me at the bandit.

[Morpheus]

lol HT.

[jetb123]

Originally posted by Clifra Jones
Sorry jet, but a whine in this environment is based on sentance structure and your sentance structure only brings one thing to  my mind, and that's a whine.  You want something changed because it is adversly affecting you. What you are basicly saying is "I can't, or won't, change my own behavior so I want the rules to be changed". As a parent, that sounds like the classic whine to me.

No offense meant but, an idea without any basis in research or facts is, well useless.  It also is very tiresome to have to respond to these types ideas time and time again. In your eyes the idea has validity but in the eyes of the experienced it does not. You may not have experience with this but in my profession I have to deal with it all the time. I only wish I could respond to them as susinctly and directly as HT can here. Unfortunatly I have to live in the Corporate PC world and try to politely tell a VP that his idea is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

You say it seemed convenient. Convenient for whom? You? Who seems, by your own words, to be unable to stop shooting when friendlies are in front of you. To me? As one who does not use tracers I should have to put up with your tracers flying past my plane interfering with my shot. Warning the bandit to break because he sees your tracers. Now don't reply that I should not dive in front of you as I have had numerous incidents of players saddling up on my 6 and firing past me at the bandit.

So when did I accutly type in saying" I'm not going to or Cant adapt to killshooter"

[Morpheus]

Originally posted by jetb123
So when did I accutly type in saying" I'm not going to or Cant adapt to killshooter"

LOL

When you asked for it to be taken out of the game!

[jetb123]

Originally posted by Morpheus
LOL

When you asked for it to be taken out of the game!

Well so your saying this this forum should be named  "Whines and gameplay feedback" Obviously its a place to throw an idea out. This was not a whine. Only a suggestion, as i have said so many times.

[Morpheus]

Originally posted by jetb123
Well so your saying this this forum should be named  "Whines and gameplay feedback" Obviously its a place to throw an idea out. This was not a whine. Only a suggestion, as i have said so many times.

Yes, and I, along with everyone else told you why it should remain.

The owner and creator of the game just TOLD you why it WILL remain in the game.

He also told you that your idea isnt a new one. Its been tossed around whinned about for the past 12 years. Again, the owner of the game said that.

Well so your saying this this forum should be named  "Whines and gameplay feedback"

Show me where I said that?

Look young man. The idea you brought up, has been around and rejected by many... Time and time again.

Its nothing new. Its nothing to think about, talk about, whine about. Why?

Because its old news. A dead horse. Doesnt hold water.