Tough Gun Laws

[Curval]

My response would be pretty much the same as Beet1e's...such a sign is unnnecessary, all households here are "gun free".

[lazs2]

Raider... what is your source for all your data?  

If you read John Lotts book you will find that a woman who defends heself with a firearm is about 3 times less likely to be injured than one who does not (it is about 7 times for a man).

The book is "More Guns Less Crime"  It is full of statistics and except for one or two extremely minor mistakes it has stood up well under the onslaught of all the liberal press.

I have read both sides... Have you?  you seem to get all your data from very far left sites.  I really think you should read both sides.

the facts are that in the U.S. ...  The places that allow guns have less crime than the ones that don't..  1.5 to 3 milloon crimes a year are stopped by firearms in the U.S.

The data you show does not jibe with anything I have ever seen that was documented.   The data you show is pretty much made up.

lazs

[lazs2]

and curval... My response would be...  I wouldn't want to live in any of those countries.

lazs

[beet1e]

Originally posted by lazs2
the facts are that in the U.S. ...  The places that allow guns have less crime than the ones that don't..  

But you have it backwards. You're saying that the states which have the most lax gun laws are the ones which have the least crime. Technically, it may well be correct, particularly in cases like Vermont.  But you're doing what the NRA does. You're trying to make it sound as if the low crime in Vermont comes as a result of there being no gun permit required. That is not correct. It's the other way round. Vermont has no supplementary gun control laws because it has never needed them because crime has always been low in VT. Why's that? Because the main focus of crime is in big cities - places of ethnic mixing, gangs and drugs, and Vermont doesn't have any big cities. Study the NRA CCW map - attached. Notice how the states with the largest cities (NY, CA, IL & Washington DC) are the ones with the strictest gun control laws? Now you might try to tell me that this is the reason for the relatively high rate of crime. It isn't. Your legislators have seen the folly of Guns-4-All in these areas, and have acted accordingly.

But in Vermont, the largest city is Burlington, with a population of less than 40,000 and fewer than 1000 blacks. The ingredients for a massive crime wave involving gangs, drugs and ethnic unrest simply aren't there. So no supplementary gun laws (permits etc.) have ever been deemed necessary.

Actually VT is one of my favourite states - around Rutland - beautiful...




"More Guns Less Crime" is a biased book which looks at events in British history, observes changes in firearms legislation and frequently makes the false assumption that there are links between the two. Can you say "Bolshevik"?

[Curval]

But...but...Mary Rosh thought Lott's book was GREAT and wrote rave reviews on it.

[john9001]

Originally posted by GtoRA2
I have never in my life hit a women, nor willl I ever.
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well....one time....this girl said..."spank me, spank me harder"

er, i digress.

[beet1e]

Originally posted by Curval
But...but...Mary Rosh thought Lott's book was GREAT and wrote rave reviews on it.

Oh wait - I was talking about the Joyce Lee Malcolm book.

[Raider179]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
for the most part gun control keeps fire arms out of NON-criminals hands.

 Most of the gun crime you read about happens with unlawfull firearms.

1)How?Since all you need is collector or dealer license and you can own any fire-arm you want.

2) Most does not mean all.

[Raider179]

Originally posted by lazs2
Raider... what is your source for all your data?  

lazs

New England Journal of Medicine. 1993; 329. 1084-1091

1998 FBI Supplementary Homicide Report. Analysis performed by the Violence Policy Center

Source: 1998 FBI Supplementary Homicide Report. Ratio calculated by the Violence Policy Center.

Source: Bailey, J. Risk factors for violence death of women in the home. Archives of Internal Medicine. 1997; 157(7): 777-782.

[Raider179]

Originally posted by Sox62
Yeah?

I own a closet full of handguns.Why should I have to wait?Do I need a "cooling off period?"Or do the people passing these bs feelgood laws think I would wait until the new gun arrived before I commited a crime,instead of using one of the dozen I already own?

I have never broken the law.Why shouldn't an instant background check be sufficient?

I guess you didnt read the entire thread. Just 2 or something posts later I said this.

See buts it's not about you, your law abiding you wouldnt go shoot your wife or whatever. Its for the wacko's out there that would. Sorry if it causes a small disruption but its really is a small one and it has probably saved someone's life.

[bustr]

Raider,

Why are you personaly afraid of "Whako's"? It' all you offer up as justification for your arguments.

Your logic process's will incrementally gut the freedom of all citizens one grain of sand at a time. There is no way to tell who will be the next Whako. Too many unaccountable factors in life can turn any of us into a Whako. Including yourself.

Will you take away everything from all of us that "you" can imagine a Whako "might" use to kill someone? When I trained in Tenshin Ryu I could break bricks and boards with my hands. I don't need an artificial impliment to kill a person. The side of the skull shatters at the same lb/per/sq/inch 4 boards break at. Your wind pipe collapses to alot less. Do you want all martial artists in the U.S. photgraphed and registered, then their addresses placed on the same web site with sex offenders?

If you personaly are not prepaired to respond to a Whako in public or private, why reduce those of us who are to your level of inability? I spent 20 years of my life learning how. I don't feel the need to impose restrictions on my fellow citizens.

[Raider179]

Originally posted by bustr
Raider,

Why are you personaly afraid of "Whako's"? It' all you offer up as justification for your arguments.

Your logic process's will incrementally gut the freedom of all citizens one grain of sand at a time. There is no way to tell who will be the next Whako. Too many unaccountable factors in life can turn any of us into a Whako. Including yourself.

Will you take away everything from all of us that "you" can imagine a Whako "might" use to kill someone? When I trained in Tenshin Ryu I could break bricks and boards with my hands. I don't need an artificial impliment to kill a person. The side of the skull shatters at the same lb/per/sq/inch 4 boards break at. Your wind pipe collapses to alot less. Do you want all martial artists in the U.S. photgraphed and registered, then their addresses placed on the same web site with sex offenders?

If you personaly are not prepaired to respond to a Whako in public or private, why reduce those of us who are to your level of inability? I spent 20 years of my life learning how. I don't feel the need to impose restrictions on my fellow citizens.

lol I am not afraid of anything including your Tenshin Ryu. But thanks for letting me know your a karate expert. That's not gonna help you a lot if someone pulls a gun on you is it? Comparison between martial arts and gun weilding criminals are not even close in my book. I cant remember the last time I saw a Karate Expert go on a rampage, perhaps you can provide a link?


It really makes me laugh, all the gun guys saying "your taking away my rights" then in the next post its I have 9 guns at the house. blah blah blah. I have yet to see anyone's rights infringed on. maybe that one vet security guard who lost his carry permit. But no one else has offered up how it affects their right except to say "I can't buy my gun right when I want it" wow talk about right infringement. Maybe you can get the ACLU on it. lmao

[GtoRA2]

Raider,
 I did point out where I and others had lost our rights and your reply was, "no you can just get permits or a dealers license."


That’s not valid for several reasons.

A: Many places in Cali will not let you get a FFL unless you have a store front. I do not want to be a gun reseller, I don’t want the ATF to inconvenience me with their we can inspect you without a warrant at any time intrusions that go with the FFL

B: Cali is NOTORIOUS for being impossible to get permits for Illegal to the general public weapons unless you know someone. I do not have a local senator in my pocket. Most people do not.


Your argument is also flawed in that, why should I have to get a special license, that costs hundreds of dollars a year to buy guns, that YOU STILL can not buy cause the are illegal to sell in the state because they are unsafe (Cali’s BS Safety test that costs the gun companies so much they only bother to test one or two models. Oddly though these UNSAFE guns can still be sold to cops) or Illegal to sell because they have been banned (.50 rifles). You as a dealer can not order either cause you can’t sell them.


Your whole argument is like me saying as an example: It would be ok for the government to infringe on your right to free speech, as long as you can still fill out a bunch of paperwork and get a permit so you can go out and hold a sign bashing Bush etc. Yeah it’s more trouble, but what’s a few extra forms or a few hundred in fees, you still have the right. You just have to plan ahead to use it so you have time to go through all the red tape.

We have enough gun laws on the books BS laws like the .50 ban are just that, they are out there to make people who know nothing about the issue feel good about guns being taken away. Guns are only a minor part of the real crime problem. Banning guns that do not get used in crimes is pretty silly. Even if it make silly ignorant people feel safer.

[bustr]

Raider,

I also own guns. Ive been retired from martial arts for about 10 years now. The human body can take only so much in a life time. If you are not afraid of Whako's, why do you work so hard to convince everyone to accept laws that might stop one Whako, but in reality strip citizens of their freedoms with dubious results on Whako's?

No Whako in the act of Whakoing someone is stopped by words written on a peice of paper. Most citizens have no clue what is in the law books. By definition a Whako is not afraid of the specific laws it is violating. Or ergo the Whako would not violate those laws.

Your responses to most on this board about laws seems to indicate you are afraid of the potential in all of your fellow citizens to become a Whako. Short of a telepathy machine being invented, there is no really effective method to tell if one citizen or another is a Whako, or will become one in their life time.

But, you can strip "all" of them of rights and privlages as a preventative "scattergun" measure with a method called "laws" until the only leagal activity's they can partake of are sanctioned by the State. Then you have the cohersion of Law by police or militairy to control everyone.

Oh but don't forget. The police and militairy are staffed by our fellow citizens and have the same Whako's in thier ranks. So now we are back where we started, but worse. You've just given the Whako's arms and training to enforce Whako prevention Laws against the disarmed law abiding citizens you want controled because of their potential to become Whako's.

[bustr]

Raider,

To be honest Tenshin Ryu is a school of japanese militairy stratigy founded in the 1700's from Katori Shinto Ryu. It teaches all disiplines needed to perform as a samurai in the warfare of that time.

Karate as you think of it is a modern invention. Atemi wasa, striking techniques, have existed as part of armed warfare since it's inception. Testing ones ablility to perform the techniques of striking an opponent or cutting an opponent is standard fair for your education in such a school.

Testing your strikes, tamashiwari, could be on wooden boards, bricks, rocks, cinder blocks, ice or killing animals in a slaughter house. Testing your cutting abllity, tameshigiri, could be on green bamboo, green wood, rolled up grass matts, and as a freind of mine would do, purchase a fresh killed pig carcass. It is very close to a human body in density and structure.