Author Topic: Tough Gun Laws  (Read 1355 times)

Offline Raider179

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Tough Gun Laws
« Reply #75 on: May 27, 2005, 05:17:35 PM »
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Raider,
 I did point out where I and others had lost our rights and your reply was, "no you can just get permits or a dealers license."


That’s not valid for several reasons.

A: Many places in Cali will not let you get a FFL unless you have a store front. I do not want to be a gun reseller, I don’t want the ATF to inconvenience me with their we can inspect you without a warrant at any time intrusions that go with the FFL

B: Cali is NOTORIOUS for being impossible to get permits for Illegal to the general public weapons unless you know someone. I do not have a local senator in my pocket. Most people do not.


Your argument is also flawed in that, why should I have to get a special license, that costs hundreds of dollars a year to buy guns, that YOU STILL can not buy cause the are illegal to sell in the state because they are unsafe (Cali’s BS Safety test that costs the gun companies so much they only bother to test one or two models. Oddly though these UNSAFE guns can still be sold to cops) or Illegal to sell because they have been banned (.50 rifles). You as a dealer can not order either cause you can’t sell them.


Your whole argument is like me saying as an example: It would be ok for the government to infringe on your right to free speech, as long as you can still fill out a bunch of paperwork and get a permit so you can go out and hold a sign bashing Bush etc. Yeah it’s more trouble, but what’s a few extra forms or a few hundred in fees, you still have the right. You just have to plan ahead to use it so you have time to go through all the red tape.

We have enough gun laws on the books BS laws like the .50 ban are just that, they are out there to make people who know nothing about the issue feel good about guns being taken away. Guns are only a minor part of the real crime problem. Banning guns that do not get used in crimes is pretty silly. Even if it make silly ignorant people feel safer.


Sounds like its time to move from Cali if you dislike it so much. I hear Nevada and Texas are pretty lenient on their gun laws.

jk man. :)

Offline Raider179

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« Reply #76 on: May 27, 2005, 05:19:19 PM »
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Originally posted by bustr
Raider,

I also own guns. Ive been retired from martial arts for about 10 years now. The human body can take only so much in a life time. If you are not afraid of Whako's, why do you work so hard to convince everyone to accept laws that might stop one Whako, but in reality strip citizens of their freedoms with dubious results on Whako's?

No Whako in the act of Whakoing someone is stopped by words written on a peice of paper. Most citizens have no clue what is in the law books. By definition a Whako is not afraid of the specific laws it is violating. Or ergo the Whako would not violate those laws.

Your responses to most on this board about laws seems to indicate you are afraid of the potential in all of your fellow citizens to become a Whako. Short of a telepathy machine being invented, there is no really effective method to tell if one citizen or another is a Whako, or will become one in their life time.

But, you can strip "all" of them of rights and privlages as a preventative "scattergun" measure with a method called "laws" until the only leagal activity's they can partake of are sanctioned by the State. Then you have the cohersion of Law by police or militairy to control everyone.

Oh but don't forget. The police and militairy are staffed by our fellow citizens and have the same Whako's in thier ranks. So now we are back where we started, but worse. You've just given the Whako's arms and training to enforce Whako prevention Laws against the disarmed law abiding citizens you want controled because of their potential to become Whako's.


sorry should have used Psycho instead of whacko. lol

Let me ask you this, Should you be allowed to purchase a missile? how bout a horitzer? what about any kind of arms you deam you want. Should there be any limits?

Offline Raider179

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« Reply #77 on: May 27, 2005, 05:19:59 PM »
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Originally posted by bustr
Raider,

To be honest Tenshin Ryu is a school of japanese militairy stratigy founded in the 1700's from Katori Shinto Ryu. It teaches all disiplines needed to perform as a samurai in the warfare of that time.

Karate as you think of it is a modern invention. Atemi wasa, striking techniques, have existed as part of armed warfare since it's inception. Testing ones ablility to perform the techniques of striking an opponent or cutting an opponent is standard fair for your education in such a school.

Testing your strikes, tamashiwari, could be on wooden boards, bricks, rocks, cinder blocks, ice or killing animals in a slaughter house. Testing your cutting abllity, tameshigiri, could be on green bamboo, green wood, rolled up grass matts, and as a freind of mine would do, purchase a fresh killed pig carcass. It is very close to a human body in density and structure.


I was being sarcastic :) Sounds cool though.

Offline GtoRA2

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« Reply #78 on: May 27, 2005, 05:26:24 PM »
Oh I plan to move out of the state eventualy.


Prolly to the Northwest, nothing can be as bad as cali. Shame too, it is a pretty awsome state. Little bit over everything, forests, plains, valeys, desert, great beaches, hot beaches, etc.

To bad the state governments is so badly messed up.

Offline indy007

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« Reply #79 on: May 27, 2005, 05:36:00 PM »
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Originally posted by beet1e
Study the NRA CCW map - attached. Notice how the states with the largest cities (NY, CA, IL & Washington DC) are the ones with the strictest gun control laws? Now you might try to tell me that this is the reason for the relatively high rate of crime. It isn't. Your legislators have seen the folly of Guns-4-All in these areas, and have acted accordingly.


Houston (#4), Dallas (#8), Phoenix (#9), & San Antonio (#10)... all have right to carry. DC is ranked #19 in population, but 6th most dangerous city in the US. None of the mentioned cities other than DC even make the top 25.

You'd probably do better comparing crime rate & population density.. in which case we can reach the inevitable conclusion... ban high population densities!

Offline bustr

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« Reply #80 on: May 27, 2005, 06:32:04 PM »
If the Militairy has a nuke, I should have a nuke. If psycos will always be a part of the human condition, arm the population so being a psyco is a dieing proposition. I would rather see one psyco dead at the hands of one armed female, than his 12 month trial on Fox for the 12 unarmed females he murdered.  

I grew up on military posts. Just as many psycos per population perportion as in the civilian sector. It mostly dosen't get into the media. They have their own court system and prisons.

Human beings are human beings in law enforcement, the militairy, clergy, hospitol, capitol hill, or next door. Every avenue of life having to do with human beings will have psycos. Heck doctors accidentaly kill more people a year than psycos, gang bangers, and Usam Bin Ladin.

Each of has a breaking point, getting there is different for each of us. If you want to bet your life that when some psyco reaches his, and targets you or yours, that a policeman will be standing next to him, or a law will deter him, by all means.

I have never met a policeman or a G.I. who will sign his name in blood on a mountain of bibles that he can personally save anyones kester at the moment a psyco goes off on you. Nor save your kester if or when our buerocrats decide to give up the charade of benevolency and declaire the constitution null and void in the name of security from foreign psyco's.

I beleive it's disingenuous to try and sell laws to people that ask them to give up even a nanosecond of their lifes time and energy to not being able to defend "their" life. In the process of controling human beings by creating adfinitum of laws restricting their daily activities in the hope of restricting psycos, you will reach a point of restrictive imbalance that creates those very psycos.

Politicians thrive on creating laws wheather there is any point to the law other than the emediate emotional histeria of the constituency. After the constituency has their fix, you have one more law on the books that gives the government one more way to restrict and regulate our lives as they choose to interprite the law.

You may feel good now, but you have no clue how that law added to the trail of good intentions inherited from past well meaning individules like your self will be used. One psyco can kill a few today. Laws live on long after you are dead and the original intent is forgotten being leveraged by the government against countless people who you will never have to face.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #81 on: May 27, 2005, 07:58:51 PM »
raider.." the violence policy center"??  they got busted for saying that like 9 children were killed every hour with handguns in the U.S.  

They are the old "handgun control inc." that was laughed off of every stage they debated on.   They depend on the fact that the people who read their stuff are allready of the same mindset.

seriously... is that the case with you?  wouldn't you like to at least read the best book on the subject from the pro gun side (even tho he started out very anti gun)?

beetle is talking about concealled carry not guns allowed in the homes (washington dc and chicago..detroit new yuork cityall have very strict laws against firearms)   beetle is also talking about a different book about english gun laws.   So far as I know he has never read lott's book(s).

most anti gun people here have read reams of stuff by the anti gun crowd... most of it completely unscientific or totally lacking in any documentation yet...  Armed (pun intended) with all this one sided prose... you feel that you are well informed.

Admit that nothing you read even pretends to be objective and then read the book that is objective  "More guns less crime"  by John Lott.

You can probly get a used copy on amazon... Otherwise...

What is the point of argueing the fireams issue?

lazs

Offline hyena426

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« Reply #82 on: May 28, 2005, 12:03:31 AM »
England and Wales have one of the worst crime records in the industrialised world - even worse than America - according to the findings of an official survey published which compares the experience of victims across 17 countries.
The study, coordinated by the Dutch ministry of justice, shows England and Wales at the top of the world league with Australia as the countries where you are most likely to become a victim of crime. These countries face an annual rate of 58 crimes for every 100 inhabitants.

The findings, based on interviews with 35,000 people about their experience of crime across the 17 countries, were carried out last year. They are a blow to Labour's record and underline the challenge facing Tony Blair when he marks the launch of Labour's 10-year anti-crime plan next Monday by becoming the first serving prime minister to visit a prison.

The 2000 International Crime Victimisation survey shows that the falls in crime recorded since the mid-1990s in England and Wales are part of a general pattern of falling crime across the industrialised world but, unlike America, crime levels in England and Wales are still higher than they were at the end of the 1980s. When the survey was last carried out in 1996, England and Wales also topped the league table with 61 offences per 100 inhabitants.

According to the International Crime Victim Survey:2003/04.
Australia and then England and Wales had the highest burglary rates and rates for violent crimes such as robbery, assault and sexual assault .


People in England and Wales experienced more crime per head than any other country in the survey, 54.5 crimes per 100 inhabitants compared with an average of 35.2 per 100.

People in England and Wales face the second highest risk of being a victim of crime. Australia was the worst with 30% of its people victims of crime in 2000, followed by England and Wales with 26.4%.

England and Wales had the worst record for 'very serious' offences, scoring 18 for every hundred inhabitants, followed by Australia with 16.

People in England and Wales felt they were more unsafe when out alone after dark than people in most other countries surveyed, ranking 4th out of 17.


Contact crime, defined as robbery, sexual assault, and assault with force, was second highest in England and Wales (3.6% of those surveyed). The highest figure was for Australia, where it was 4.1%. The figure for the USA was 1.9% and for Japan, 0.4%.


according to International Crime Victim Survey:..england has a very high crime rate for population size,,..lol..allmost gives fuel to gun owners when they see that kinda crime
« Last Edit: May 28, 2005, 12:49:32 AM by hyena426 »

Offline beet1e

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« Reply #83 on: May 28, 2005, 02:31:53 AM »
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Originally posted by hyena426
People in England and Wales experienced more crime per head than any other country in the survey, 54.5 crimes per 100 inhabitants compared with an average of 35.2 per 100.
As can be seen from the chart below - supplied by an official source (the Home Office) the rate is below 30 per 1000. You're off by a factor of 20.

Feel free to quote the FACTS!

 

Offline hyena426

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« Reply #84 on: May 29, 2005, 01:12:54 AM »
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.Feel free to quote the FACTS!
 

not my facts...no need to break out your caps lock...lol. .its from a liberal web site.uk site i think?...if you wanna complain to them about lieing to me,,feal free... found that on civitas web site...suppose to be independent...{whos knows for sure} i dont put that much trust in official or non official surveys.. most say official and fair..lol

im sure you can find a bunch of web sites that are official that show all sorts of diffrent grafs to make ya feal better about crime or worse.http://www.civitas.org.uk/pubs/crimeBB.php The British Crime Survey...International Crime Victim Survey..Crime according to police records..home office crime survey..too many to chose from:)..lol




Civitas: the Institute for the Study of Civil Society was launched early in 2000 as an independent registered charity (No. 1085494). It is politically non-partisan and is financed by private donations. It accepts no government funding
« Last Edit: May 29, 2005, 04:53:02 AM by hyena426 »

Offline Dago

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« Reply #85 on: May 29, 2005, 08:06:32 AM »
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Originally posted by beet1e
and even spent last weekend with Tomato, who was very happy to see me.  


Never figured someone a woman who would date you had all her common sense.



dago
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"

Offline beet1e

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« Reply #86 on: May 29, 2005, 01:52:57 PM »
There's nowt so queer as folk