Spit9 vs P38L Critiques Pls

[dedalos]

Originally posted by slimm50
Happy1, in hind-sight, what about continuing your initial climb thereby putting yourself in the better position to try to rope/cherrypick  the P-38 at your leisure. Instead of reversing right away to follow him, as you did. Anyone want to tell me why that wouldn't work out?

What, roping a 38 that started higher than you?  You may as well go HO with a NIKI in 202.

He did the right thing.  He reversed and got on his six.  I cant tell what happened after that cause the description is not very clear.  Way too much messing with the trim and not nuff fighting?

[Raptor]

Originally posted by Pooface
lol yeah, american patriotism:lol

its gonna be like that with most games tho, most americans believe the war started in '41, and of course it did for you guys, but it was going on 2 years before that aswell you know:rolleyes:

anywho, endless ramblings of a silly brit

oh, btw, i was watching the extra features on the battle of britain dvd, and they had a featurette mith michael caine. they interviewed 20 americans outside the american embassy, 17 of which thought that the americans won the battle of britain, and that the english failed      

Most British think the war started in 1939, when it was actually going on as early as '33 with the Japanese invading Korea;)

[killnu]

sounds like you misjudged his E at first, was only 2k higher than you , but was his speed compared to you?  while you trying to trim and everything else, wasting E...he kept looping till he saw time to hit flaps because you about to stall...then, game over.  what i get from description anyways...hard to tell, you went up and over, he just went up...roped, continued till you e was gone as you fought for solution.

[slimm50]

Originally posted by dedalos
What, roping a 38 that started higher than you?  You may as well go HO with a NIKI in 202.

He did the right thing.  He reversed and got on his six.  I cant tell what happened after that cause the description is not very clear.  Way too much messing with the trim and not nuff fighting?

Ded, my thinking was sumpin like this: the spit 9's strong suit is the spiral climb. Since the P38 was diving, and there was only a couple thousand feet diff in alt, if the spit had enough speed he could continue the zoom upward, whilst the p38 would have to then trade speed for alt, by which time the spit would have the alt advantage. The spit would continue the vertical climbout in a spiral while the p38, in the effort to try and track the spit,  bled energy faster than the spit, thus allowing the spit to choose his opportunity to strike. (for example, when the p38 flops over, for real and not just faking it).

Have I made any sense here?

[dedalos]

Originally posted by slimm50
Ded, my thinking was sumpin like this: the spit 9's strong suit is the spiral climb. Since the P38 was diving, and there was only a couple thousand feet diff in alt, if the spit had enough speed he could continue the zoom upward, whilst the p38 would have to then trade speed for alt, by which time the spit would have the alt advantage. The spit would continue the vertical climbout in a spiral while the p38, in the effort to try and track the spit,  bled energy faster than the spit, thus allowing the spit to choose his opportunity to strike. (for example, when the p38 flops over, for real and not just faking it).

Have I made any sense here?

You make sence, I just would not do it.  Or should I say, everytime I tried it, I end up getting hurt.  Very hard to estimate e states.  The 38 was diving (we don't know how stip the dive was).  If it was a shalow dive, he was picking up speed and being a 38 (helicopter) I am guessing it would be able to follow up.  Even if it could not, it could still hit the spit from d800 or have a HO shot when the spit finaly fall over.

All this is just a guess.  Depending on the e states, you may be right.  Just personal preference I guess.  I would not try it with a 38.

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by Karnak
That also might have had something to do with the AW Spitfire Mk IX being powered by a Merlin 66, and maybe at +25lbs boost, no?

 

That had nothing to do with it.  It was a known fact that the Spitfire Mk IX was over modeled.  Some players claimed it was because the Kesmoids favored the Spitfire but as one guy from Kesmai told me, the real reason is that the Spitfire in AW was considered the starter plane.  It was a plane that you automatically started in the first time you logged into the game and the plane that 99.99% of the newbies flew until they learned the game.  And of course, AW's less than accurate flight model also helped.

ack-ack

[J_A_B]

"In AW, the Spitfire Mk IX was way over modeled and it could out climb and out run the P-38Jat all altitudes."

AW, especially AW3, was not known for its modeling accuracy by any stretch of the imagination.

The late (AW3 after several patches) P-38J was actually modeled more like a P-38G.  It had an initial climbrate of about 3200 FPM and could reach 404 MPH tops.  Their Spitfire 9 was actually pretty close to a LF mk 9--but it performed well up high too.  The AW 109K was the worst of them all--top speed of only 399 MPH (I kid you not).   The F4U-1D could maintain a 2900 FPM climbrate at 30,000 feet.  The P-40E was my favorite though--it had a top speed of only 317 MPH (@14k) and could barely hold 2500 FPM with WEP....no wonder it sucked so bad.

I did extensive testing of most the AW planes' speed and climb in late 2000.  I probably knew more about how they performed than the developers did by that point due to the incredible neglect the game received.  It wasn't easy to test this stuff, either, since the game's climbrate indicator wasn't accurate and I had to convert knots to MPH.

J_A_B

[Happy1]

Gentlemen, thx much 4 ur replies & inputs, now I understand what I've done wrong, besides being over-confident, loss of "E" &
was suckered into a looping fite w/the 38 (big error), what I was
attempting to do is to zoom up to the 38, slow down to whip arnd faster on my reversal, accelerate, WEP & blast the 38.

The 38 driver started pulling up & I followed him up...trimming w/my UP elevator having nary a doubt that I'll get him, I noticed
that the climbs were very steep.   After a cple of loops, I tried to
get above him & STAY there so I can snipe or BnZ him, that didn't
work

Just couldn't get angles on the 38 & yes he wore my E down so I
was outflown by a better driver.   Who the driver was/is I don't
know as in the heat of battle I was watching him & what he does.

After the saluting I didn't pay too much attn, my mistake, as I could've asked ? of my wrong doing & what I should've done.

Have to learn HOW 2 break off after a cple loops formulating a gd
attack plan.  I don't really care for long fites as I like to get in, kill
the nme ASAP & go on the next opponent, unfortunately some
people don't give me the opportunity, such as in this case .. lol

Keep ur advice, comments, critiques & recommendations coming
as I need ALL the help I can get ... Thx every1  

Happy1  

[Karnak]

Originally posted by Ack-Ack
That had nothing to do with it.  It was a known fact that the Spitfire Mk IX was over modeled.  Some players claimed it was because the Kesmoids favored the Spitfire but as one guy from Kesmai told me, the real reason is that the Spitfire in AW was considered the starter plane.  It was a plane that you automatically started in the first time you logged into the game and the plane that 99.99% of the newbies flew until they learned the game.  And of course, AW's less than accurate flight model also helped.

ack-ack

Interesting.

This coupled with J_A_B's post make me glad I never flew AW.

That said, AH really needs a representative Spitfire line up, such as I recently posted about in the Aircraft and Vehicles forum.  If the OP had been flying a Spitfire LF.Mk XVI at +25lbs boost the fight would have been a lot more of a fight.

AH only having the Merlin 61 at +15lbs boost Spitfire F.Mk IX from 1942 really gives a distorted view of how competitive Spitfires were.

[Howitzer]

Do NOT climb.  If you get into a vertical fight with a p38 in a spit9 you will lose.  Keep flat turning, and if he goes up, extend, get your speed up, and when he tries to pick you, use his speed against him and force an overshoot, but if he climbs back up do not follow him or you are rope bait  =)

[J_A_B]

Karnak--

AW was not all bad; however, I do not forget the things about it which WERE bad.  Their flight modeling and aircraft performance was bad.  Their developers were generally un-caring and dismissive of much of the community's concerns (remember years of "maintenence mode" as they worked on other projects like AW:vietnam that few people wanted?).  It's an excellent case of what mismanagement and corporate apathy can do to an online product.  As such, the comment a Kesmai employee may have made to Ack-Ack must be taken with a grain of salt--the comments from the devs weren't alway saccurate and in some cases they were known to outright lie to the players.  

HTC is a far superior company in terms of dedication to its product and player base.

AirWarrior had it's good points, too, and was in some ways superior to AH.  Feel free to ask me about it if you like  

J_A_B

[pellik]

I had always thought the spit9 was a POS until I got my butt kicked by flyboy a few weeks ago. I'm still not entierly sure how well they can match up as my throttle management just is no match for his. The advantages he demonstrated are only really valid in a co-E fight, however.

The spit's guns package simply doesn't compare with the 38 IF you can shoot. Because of it's long range gunning options the 38 can simply prevent the spit from either having a good merge or having equal energy. Defensive positioning just pays off better when d800 is kill range, and it's hard to reverse an attacking 38 for the same reasons. The 38 can also really take a beating, so even if the spit catches you with the hispanios for a brief shot during a  reversal, you're far more likely to survive that then him surviving to get back out of guns range.

[pellik]

Originally posted by Karnak
Interesting.

This coupled with J_A_B's post make me glad I never flew AW.

That said, AH really needs a representative Spitfire line up, such as I recently posted about in the Aircraft and Vehicles forum.  If the OP had been flying a Spitfire LF.Mk XVI at +25lbs boost the fight would have been a lot more of a fight.

AH only having the Merlin 61 at +15lbs boost Spitfire F.Mk IX from 1942 really gives a distorted view of how competitive Spitfires were.

The 38 can utterly destroy the spit14, too.

[jaxxo]

spit 9 matches u well against 38..the thing is most 38 dirvers really know their bird..spit is very forgiving so alot of potential e is lost in sloppy merges when the over confident driver thinks hes in complete control of the fight.

[BTW]

Again, I dunno how it stacks up here, but a spit 9 vs a 38 was always a good fight in AW and dependent on pilot ability, as was p51 vs d9, hellcat vs ki, hog vs n1k1. I used to like different plane duels.