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Author Topic: What if.... An abstract political question.  (Read 2220 times)

Offline Estel

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What if.... An abstract political question.
« on: July 26, 2005, 12:14:05 PM »
Ok. Let's imagine an abstract situation:

The Russian Federation signs the agreement about cooperation and military interaction with Iran.

This agreement contains items in which is specified about the introduction into the war in case of an attack the participant of the agreement.

How do you see the further actions of the USA government  in relation to Iran?
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Offline Hangtime

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« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2005, 12:17:59 PM »
War.
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Offline Boroda

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« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2005, 12:26:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime
War.


Maybe. But I doubt that Russia will want to send troops to Iran. Or that we'll need Iranian troops here. But they may help in knocking out US sattelites in Caucasus region, restoring the "influence" in Georgia and Azerbaijan that was ruined by Russian Empire in XVIII-XIX centuries. In this case Georgian government will again "beg on their knees" for being allowed to join Russia...

I prefer this scenario to an obvious decision to solve a problem once and forever...
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Offline Raider179

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Re: What if.... An abstract political question.
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2005, 10:56:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Estel
Ok. Let's imagine an abstract situation:

The Russian Federation signs the agreement about cooperation and military interaction with Iran.

This agreement contains items in which is specified about the introduction into the war in case of an attack the participant of the agreement.

How do you see the further actions of the USA government  in relation to Iran?


That would be very stupid of Russia.
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Offline Estel

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What if.... An abstract political question.
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2005, 02:40:29 AM »
We are not talking about is it stupid or not. I said, it's an abstract. Let's think this agreement is a fact.
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Offline Raider179

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« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2005, 03:38:52 AM »
First Russia would lose all US aid. We would immediately stop funding Russian programs. Including the hundreds of millions we spend getting rid of "russian" nukes.

Second I see the U.S. funding any/all  Russian "Satellite" republics or states that even seems like it wants the opposite of Russia. Sign any and all treaties with the "satellite" republics promising them the same defense.

Third, Attack Iran just on the principle of Russia trying to "bully" its way back onto the world stage by allying itself with a rogue state.

Fourth Putin is not that dumb. Russia has neither the military strength or the money to back Iran in a conflict with the US or Isreal. That is why it is stupid.
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Offline 1K3

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What if.... An abstract political question.
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2005, 04:38:02 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Raider179
First Russia would lose all US aid. We would immediately stop funding Russian programs. Including the hundreds of millions we spend getting rid of "russian" nukes.


You is wrong:D
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Offline Boroda

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« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2005, 05:00:32 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Raider179
First Russia would lose all US aid. We would immediately stop funding Russian programs. Including the hundreds of millions we spend getting rid of "russian" nukes.


Well, is there any American aid that goes on anything creative? Only on destruction of our agriculture, defence and industry. I doubt that if the events will go as Estel wrote we'll need any foreign funding for getting rid of our nuclear weapons.

BTW, "american aid" is overestimated. It's nothing compared to Russian state budget.

Quote
Originally posted by Raider179
Second I see the U.S. funding any/all  Russian "Satellite" republics or states that even seems like it wants the opposite of Russia. Sign any and all treaties with the "satellite" republics promising them the same defense.


It's already so. Supporting "limitrophs" like Georgia and supporting fascist nationalistic regimes in Baltic region is your official policy now.

That's why I wrote about letting Iran deal with that loosers in Caucasus.

Quote
Originally posted by Raider179
Third, Attack Iran just on the principle of Russia trying to "bully" its way back onto the world stage by allying itself with a rogue state.


Iran is not a rogue state. At least it doesn't start aggressive wars.

If it will be attacked - I hope Russia will provide all possible technical assistance.

But I doubt that in such a case Iran will ever be attacked. It will be a quick and desperate return to MAD concept.

Quote
Originally posted by Raider179
Fourth Putin is not that dumb. Russia has neither the military strength or the money to back Iran in a conflict with the US or Isreal. That is why it is stupid.


Russia has Strategic Missile Corps. It's the problem. After 3-4 test launches declared in advance, with warheads going down in a "designated region of Pacific Ocean" someone will need to wash their pants. :(

The fact is that now Russia doesn't need any stinking "aid" from the West. We can do pretty well on our own. And we can't be "sieged" because in this case we can freeze the whole Europe duringthe first winter by closing natiral gas pipelines. Any attempt to finish the construction of a new Iron Curtain from Western side is impossible.

And imagine the impact on the oil market if Iran and Russia will cooperate...
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Offline Lazerus

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« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2005, 05:38:43 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
BTW, "american aid" is overestimated.


Good. Give me my money back.
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Offline DREDIOCK

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« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2005, 08:39:38 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Lazerus
Good. Give me my money back.


Why? You wouldnt get it back anyway.
the goverment would just find some other meaningful use for it like studying the mating habits of butterflies or the elderly like they have done with the SS surplus LOL
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Offline Boroda

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« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2005, 12:18:09 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Lazerus
Good. Give me my money back.


I didn't ask for any aid. And what I defietly didn't ask for is for your advices on how we should live.

Example of "american aid": in 1999 we had a really good harvest, best in decades. Here comes "american aid": 2 million tons of wheat for free. Do you understand what did it do to Russian agriculture? No more such aid, please.

West is so angry at Putin because he tries to guard Russian foreign interests. That's the reason for exhumating moth-eaten Cold War "dissidents" and screaming about "demooocracy" at every corner, absolutely missing his internal policy.
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Offline Hangtime

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« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2005, 12:43:37 PM »
Boroda, I fully expect in the coming years America will be forced to implement some very unpopular (with russia) policies regarding the security of ameican 'interests', backed up by the use of applied military violence to make the point.

Iran may well be the place that happens. It may be a second Korean War. It could be Pakistan. It might be France. The location matters not a bit.

Data point: US 'interest' is not world domination or the conquest of Russia, yah paranoid commie. It never was, never will be. It is however in America's best interest that nobody else does either. All threats are 'serious' particularly in this Nuclear Age of push button war.

Should Russia attempt to return to cold war dogma and international policies, the US will whip yer bellybutton again, without ever putting a foot on your soil. Should Russia decide to go 'hot', we'll still whip yer ass, and you won't be harvesting any wheat any time soon as a result.

Now, unless you seriously think your financially bankrupt and broken down piss-pot republic (with our without any third world pals you bring in on your 'side') can stand in the ring and go toe to toe with the most advanced and competent military on the planet, I suggest yah stop pounding the podium & plop yer wide flat russian butt back down in yer seat and put yer shoe back on.

Get a Moscow McDonalds Big Mac and enjoy Democracy in Action.

;)

(Note: I haven't seen any Russian fast food joints in the US.. is that significant?)
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Offline Krusher

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« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2005, 12:57:14 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda

 
Iran is not a rogue state. At least it doesn't start aggressive wars.

If it will be attacked - I hope Russia will provide all possible technical assistance.

 


So the help Iran gives to terrorist including, Chechen is ok by you?
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Offline Boroda

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« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2005, 01:06:56 PM »
No time  to aswer to Hang, already running home.

Quote
Originally posted by Krusher
So the help Iran gives to terrorist including, Chechen is ok by you?


Iran is one of the many Moslim countries (unlike some NATO members) that never supports Chechen terrorists. Iran's foreign policy is an interesting thing. They assisted Armenia together with Russia in a war against Azerbaijan. In fact they helped Christian nations against Moslims.

Again I have to say that some things are quite different from what "everyone knows".
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Offline Hangtime

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« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2005, 01:29:58 PM »
ruh roh. Boroda's on the way home, brown bag in hand, no ticket in his pocket.

Now I'm in fer it.. when (if) he makes it home, i'm gonna get my yankee dog ears pinned back.

I eagerly await my demise.

;)
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The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

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