What if.... An abstract political question.

[Estel]

Originally posted by Raider179
First Russia would lose all US aid. We would immediately stop funding Russian programs. Including the hundreds of millions we spend getting rid of "russian" nukes.

No problem. That nukes will return onto service. Will it be bad for Russia? I don't think so. Your "other" programs are not so big as you think. And most part of them are political.

Second I see the U.S. funding any/all  Russian "Satellite" republics or states that even seems like it wants the opposite of Russia. Sign any and all treaties with the "satellite" republics promising them the same defense.

It's already going. Ukraine, Georgia and all neo-nazi baltic ex-republics. Give me something new.

Third, Attack Iran just on the principle of Russia trying to "bully" its way back onto the world stage by allying itself with a rogue state.

Rogue? I don't think so. Facts?

Fourth Putin is not that dumb. Russia has neither the military strength or the money to back Iran in a conflict with the US or Isreal. That is why it is stupid.

You took wrong exit. We are not interested in beginning of the new war. Here we are only allied side to Iran. And we sure, that nor we, nor Iran will start the war.

[Estel]

7- Members should remember this board is aimed at a general audience. Posting pornographic or generally offensive text, images, links, etc. will not be tolerated. This includes attempts to bypass the profanity filter.

[Hangtime]

Originally posted by Estel
7- Members should remember this board is aimed at a general audience. Posting pornographic or generally offensive text, images, links, etc. will not be tolerated. This includes attempts to bypass the profanity filter.

enh? Estel, I know all us americans type pretty much alike, but I ain't the one that brought money into this discussion.

Care to try again?.. and this time try and stay on quote subject and point that thing at the right american.

[Raider179]

Originally posted by 1K3
You is wrong:D

care to explain which part?

[Raider179]

Originally posted by Boroda
Well, is there any American aid that goes on anything creative? Only on destruction of our agriculture, defence and industry. I doubt that if the events will go as Estel wrote we'll need any foreign funding for getting rid of our nuclear weapons.

BTW, "american aid" is overestimated. It's nothing compared to Russian state budget.

 

It's already so. Supporting "limitrophs" like Georgia and supporting fascist nationalistic regimes in Baltic region is your official policy now.

That's why I wrote about letting Iran deal with that loosers in Caucasus.

 

Iran is not a rogue state. At least it doesn't start aggressive wars.

If it will be attacked - I hope Russia will provide all possible technical assistance.

But I doubt that in such a case Iran will ever be attacked. It will be a quick and desperate return to MAD concept.

 

Russia has Strategic Missile Corps. It's the problem. After 3-4 test launches declared in advance, with warheads going down in a "designated region of Pacific Ocean" someone will need to wash their pants.

The fact is that now Russia doesn't need any stinking "aid" from the West. We can do pretty well on our own. And we can't be "sieged" because in this case we can freeze the whole Europe duringthe first winter by closing natiral gas pipelines. Any attempt to finish the construction of a new Iron Curtain from Western side is impossible.

And imagine the impact on the oil market if Iran and Russia will cooperate...

Sigh


http://www.state.gov/p/eur/rls/rpt/37668.htm

OVERVIEW OF U.S. GOVERNMENT ASSISTANCE

In FY 2003, the U.S. Government provided an estimated $963.33 million* in assistance to Russia:


$81.37 million in democratic reform programs (including Public Diplomacy exchange programs)
$69.44 million in economic and social-sector reform programs;
$770.62 million in security, regional stability and law enforcement programs;
$26.10 million in humanitarian programs;
$9.13 million in cross-sectoral and other programs; and
privately donated and U.S. Defense Department excess humanitarian commodities valued at $6.67 million.

1)So you see we give Russia 1 billion dollars in 2003. And it got spent on a lot of different programs. Comparing American aid to your country's State Budget is laughable. Imagine a poor person getting a handout and then complaining "I make more money than this at my job". Fine give us back our billion/year. Also that doesnt take into account clearing of BILLIONS in Russian Debt.

2)Good.

3)Any State that fails to adhere to International laws regarding nukes is a rogue state. Iran is in direct defiance of International law regarding nuclear weapons/energy.

4)You want to support Iran? Brother you have lost it. What if we supported the chechens? How would you like that?

5)As for the fear of your "missile corps" it also gives me chuckles. You Russians got any stealth technology over there? Oh that's right you don't. First sign you were in a nuclear war with the U.S. would be your cities and missiles facilities being lit up by ours.

6)Considering the US gets most of its oil from  Mexico, Canada, Saudi Arabia, Venesuela and Nigeria and ZERO from Iran and very little from Russia I don't see it having any effect on the US.

[Raider179]

Originally posted by Estel
No problem. That nukes will return onto service. Will it be bad for Russia? I don't think so. Your "other" programs are not so big as you think. And most part of them are political.



It's already going. Ukraine, Georgia and all neo-nazi baltic ex-republics. Give me something new.



Rogue? I don't think so. Facts?

 

You took wrong exit. We are not interested in beginning of the new war. Here we are only allied side to Iran. And we sure, that nor we, nor Iran will start the war.

Like I said 1 billion a year not to mention Loans, which debts have been cleared. Care to guess how many billions those loans get into?

Doesnt matter you still have your hand out for American Aid. I for one would like Russia to say no to our Aid. I would rather see my money spent on people who don't secretly want to see the demise of my country.

Ever wonder if those millions we were giving to your satellite countries turned into billions?

Here maybe this fact will help you.

"Ignoring the unanimous passage of the IAEA resolution that called for the suspension of all uranium enrichment programs, Iranian authorities announced the resumption of the process."

Does that help ya?

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by Raider179
Sigh


http://www.state.gov/p/eur/rls/rpt/37668.htm

OVERVIEW OF U.S. GOVERNMENT ASSISTANCE

In FY 2003, the U.S. Government provided an estimated $963.33 million* in assistance to Russia:


$81.37 million in democratic reform programs (including Public Diplomacy exchange programs)
$69.44 million in economic and social-sector reform programs;
$770.62 million in security, regional stability and law enforcement programs;
$26.10 million in humanitarian programs;
$9.13 million in cross-sectoral and other programs; and
privately donated and U.S. Defense Department excess humanitarian commodities valued at $6.67 million.

1)So you see we give Russia 1 billion dollars in 2003. And it got spent on a lot of different programs. Comparing American aid to your country's State Budget is laughable. Imagine a poor person getting a handout and then complaining "I make more money than this at my job". Fine give us back our billion/year. Also that doesnt take into account clearing of BILLIONS in Russian Debt.

Sigh, and in 2003 Russia gave the US over 6 billion dollars in goods and services, over 8 billion in 2004 and over 4 billion so far this year.  Ain't that nice of the US to give a billion back.

http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c4621.html

[superpug1]

wow, this discussion is heating up.
Remmember it wasnt about if we went to war with russia, it was if russia and Iran became allies. I dont think it would change much, Russia would have another friendly country. It may even make Iran stop its research and development cause russia could just build em all the Nuclear power plants they wanted. Sure would make a war easier with Iran. Just hit the power plants that are spread throughout the country with bunker busters to crack the Core and and kill the plant workers. Radiation would leak out and spread across most of their country, all the rest of the military would have to do is mop up.

BUUUUT i doubt that would happen, plus radiation poisoning is horrible way to die.

[RETARD MCGEE]

russia couldn't possibly be so stupid as to openly antagonize the US like that, aid or no aid.

[Russian]

Originally posted by Raider179


4)What if we supported the chechens? How would you like that?

.

US have been doing so since 90s if not earlier. Or are you going to say that Chechens waved magic wand and somehow made out of thin air American combat medic kits?

[Hangtime]

Originally posted by superpug1
wow, this discussion is heating up.
Remmember it wasnt about if we went to war with russia, it was if russia and Iran became allies. I dont think it would change much, Russia would have another friendly country. It may even make Iran stop its research and development cause russia could just build em all the Nuclear power plants they wanted. Sure would make a war easier with Iran. Just hit the power plants that are spread throughout the country with bunker busters to crack the Core and and kill the plant workers. Radiation would leak out and spread across most of their country, all the rest of the military would have to do is mop up.

BUUUUT i doubt that would happen, plus radiation poisoning is horrible way to die.

Now, what in the world would a peace-loving non-hostile non-hate oriented non-terror supporting islamic nation that's the 4th largest producer of cheap OIL (3.9 MILLION barrels PER DAY) need with any cotton pickin NUCLEAR power plants?

Now, should the Russians get all cozy with Iran and supply them with nuclear technology I'd tend to view that as DEFINITY contrary to american security intrests. And yah know somethin?? Russia being Iran's buddy fer life wouldn't extend Russia OR Iran's viabaility against a first strike response from the US by more than 10 or 15 nano-seconds.

If Russia or Iran wanna play hardball, they're gonna find America's Republican Hawk government less than willing to 'negotiate' a damn thing less than smoking craters where the proposed sites are and very big smooth bottomed holes where the stuff came from.

[Hangtime]

Originally posted by Russian
US have been doing so since 90s if not earlier. Or are you going to say that Chechens waved magic wand and somehow made out of thin air American combat medic kits?

First aid kits?? Bandages?

No Stingers? C4? Weapons?

Yer bent because the checkens have american band-aids?

Henh... yah know, one of those london bombers had a New York sweat shirt... New York musta been behind the London Terror Bomb attacks!

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by Hangtime
Now, what in the world would a peace-loving non-hostile non-hate oriented non-terror supporting islamic nation that's the 4th largest producer of cheap OIL (3.9 MILLION barrels PER DAY) need with any cotton pickin NUCLEAR power plants?

To play devil's advocate, or nutbar islamic theocracy's advocate, it is possible that the Iranian government believes that it is worth more to them to sell the oil than use it domestically, heck it might even be true.

Example, say Canada is one of the major producers of an important product that is very much in demand...say beaver.  Every beaver pelt that we use domestically, to keep ourselves warm and what not, is one more we can't sell, and get greater value for and import other goods we may demand.  

Now say the Kiwis or Aussies come up to Canada and say, "We'll teach you to harvest wool.  Using sheep to keep warm is alot cheaper than using beaver.  On top of that it frees up your beaver to sell else where.".

Now even though Canada has the some of the most abundant and best beaver in the world, it might become economically beneficial to switch to sheep for domestic use.

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by Hangtime
Yer bent because the checkens have american band-aids?

Hey, those aren't just any band-aids, those are combat band-aids.  

[Hangtime]

Originally posted by Thrawn
To play devil's advocate, or nutbar islamic theocracy's advocate, it is possible that the Iranian government believes that it is worth more to them to sell the oil than use it domestically, heck it might even be true.

Example, say Canada is one of the major producers of an important product that is very much in demand...say beaver.  Every beaver pelt that we use domestically, to keep ourselves warm and what not, is one more we can't sell, and get greater value for and import other goods we may demand.  

Now say the Kiwis or Aussies come up to Canada and say, "We'll teach you to harvest wool.  Using sheep to keep warm is alot cheaper than using beaver.  On top of that it frees up your beaver to sell else where.".

Now even though Canada has the some of the most abundant and best beaver in the world, it might become economically beneficial to switch to sheep for domestic use.

Oh, Canada! wilst thou swap real beaver fer sheep?

Yea, I think you probably would.