What if.... An abstract political question.

[Jackal1]

Example of "american aid": in 1999 we had a really good harvest, best in decades. Here comes "american aid": 2 million tons of wheat for free. Do you understand what did it do to Russian agriculture? No more such aid, please.
 [/B]

Maybe so in 1999, but in many, many previous years there was low to no harvest when viewed on a large scale. The wheat was shipped and gladly accepted then. Don`t hold your hand out and it won`t be filled.

[FiLtH]

I wish there was a planet the good folks could go, and let the angry ones here just go at it.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Raider179
lmao you are comparing trade with aid. Lmao you do know the difference right?

You got the point. I kindly ask you, Americans, to stop calling "lend-lease" an "aid". It was a business.

[Raider179]

Originally posted by Boroda
You got the point. I kindly ask you, Americans, to stop calling "lend-lease" an "aid". It was a business.

I guess you didnt understand the difference.

Trade is when we PAY money to you for goods or services.

Aid is when we GIVE you money for NO goods or servies.

Hope that clears it up.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Hangtime
Boroda, my paranoid russian friend; had world domination been the American foriegn policy dogma of the 40's and 50's we (you anyway) would not be having this conversation.

If it was policy now, we (you) would not be having this conversation.

You had that plans of world domination, and it's not a secret anymore. Drop Shot plan included genocide of 8 millions of Soviet people in first 2 weeks of war.

We definetly had such plans too, but the stunning difference is that US "Drop Shot" plan didn't have winning conditions. It was a plan to attack and lose. It's insane.

Originally posted by Hangtime
Here's the deal.. Play Nice, we let you have neat stuff, levi's bubble gum and coca-cola. Stuff you guys must want, or you'd still be doing May Day Parades with cardboard missiles.

Play Not-Nice, we cut off the neat stuff and you have another revolution.

We are sick or revolutions. I witnessed one and it's enough, people like my Grand-Uncle witnessed two, and they say that with every next one the things only get worse. We can do pretty good without Coke - in soviet times we had Pepsi. But I always prefered "Baikal". Do you have "Baikal" in the US?
 
"Neat stuff" is neat only for companies that sell it. It's a true "engine of democracy". I can brew kvas at home - and it's a crime against Coke and "democracy".

Originally posted by Hangtime
Get nasty and start 'demonstrating' ala Moon is Harsh Mistress and you'll wind up wondering who the hell shut the lights off... right before you figure out there's nobody left to throw the switch.

Heinlein showed an absolutely vital picture. We can not only demonstrate. A rule is - if you unsheath a gun you do it only to shoot, not to scare. If you shoot - you shoot to kill. But I sincerely hope that our loonies in command will "give peace a chance".

Originally posted by Hangtime
We (and it must make you absoluety nuts to know this) have the upper hand militarily by such a large margin now that some nutball hawk republican Curtiss Lemay throwback in washington just MIGHT figure we could win a nuclear war. Which would be a true tragedy, because nobody wins if we get that far..

Same **** here. But we stopped solving global problems 15 years ago and we see no actual target for RVSN (Strategic Missile Corps). OTOH we have an official military doctrine: Russian Federation will use nuclear weapons against any aggressor that invades us or our allies. It's sad, but - so it goes You wanted Russia to be unable to wage a full-scale conventional war, so you got it.

Originally posted by Hangtime
As for the stingers in Chechnya, what about the RPG's in Iraq? Sure, stuff gets into the wrong hands via illegal technology transfers between 'third' parties.. but lemme ask you a question.

Soviet RPGs in Iraq? I thought they are mostly Chinese. I still didn't see any authentic Soviet AKM automat on TV footage from Iraq.

JFYI: USSR supplied mostly SAMs to Iraq as military trade, 90% of Iraqi debt to USSR was for oil drilling equipment. Unfortunately Soviet SAMs don't work without tarined and devoted crews, and Arabs are not warriors.

Originally posted by Hangtime
Just WHERE did all your missing nuclear materials go? And, just WHO's responsible for the world-wide distribution of russian surplus arms?.

Missing nuclear materials are already in the US. The stock of weapon-grade plutonium was sold to the US for some ridiculous sum like $80M.

There is no world-wide distribution of russian surplus arms. If you see a Kalashnikov - it's mostly from Romania or China. Funny thing is that China had an SKS as a main infantry weapon, not AK. Maybe because a soldier is unable to loose an SKS bayonet

Originally posted by Hangtime
Boroda, your country no longer has an 'elected' government (again).. it does however have a heluva problem with it's 'mafia'.

So, who's in charge there? Corrupt Criminals or Puppet Government?

You hit a weak spot here

I don't care about elections: they are only a curtain to hide and justify crimes. I don't believe in democracy. I don't want an illiterate mob to decide how I must live. Sorry.

Originally posted by Hangtime
Perhaps you should look to the trangressions of your countrymen against mother russia as your nations greatest challenge. You need not fear the US, you should be very afraid of yourselves.

You are abslutely right. And I'll do my best to make them sorry for their crimes. At least as a "Red Blitzkrieg" warrior with a tomato in my hand. A ripe tomato against a $5,000 suit is sometimes more impressive then a 122mm sabot against Tiger tank's amour

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Raider179
I guess you didnt understand the difference.

Trade is when we PAY money to you for goods or services.

Aid is when we GIVE you money for NO goods or servies.

Hope that clears it up.

We paid for "lend-lease". So - please, stop calling it "aid". It was trade. And USSR paid for it three times more price per any item then other "lend-lease" acceptors, like UK. In "business" terms it was not an "aid" but a robbery.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Raider179
Yeah I saw that movie, Dr. strangelove right? lmao

I was a very bad student. We had to make an essay on some weapon class on the third year of university education, and, because I was the worst student, I got the last subject left after others picked up easy topics like "tanks" or "fighter planes": it was "missile launch positions". I wasn't frightened by this. I simply went to my Father and he lectured me for 3 hours about how the things are. A missile silo that's capable of withstanding 300kg/cm2 is real. It will survive in an area of tectonic earth movement after a thermonuclear explosion, it will dig itself out of ground being 30 degrees from initial bertical position and launch a "weapon" towards a pre-set target.

JFYI: 2.5 kg/cm2 is an excessive pressure enough to "reliable disable enemy human force". Compare 2.5 to 300... I can't imagine 300 kg/cm2. It's enough to bend armour steel like grass.

My professor carefully read my essay and asked only one question: why there's no source list? I answered that the only source is my Father - and he was satisfied.

I hope you understand a difference between a "doomsday machine" and a precise weapon array that will be able to make a surgical strike against enemy after it gets hit. Even with no human operators left.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Hangtime
Boroda, one day you and I gotta get drunk in the same place at the same time.

I'll be honored to pour a drink for You. Talking with people like You is a best advantage of using a global network for me so far.

Originally posted by Hangtime
p.s.  it is an American right and obligation to mangle the english language. that includes spelling, punctuation and verbage. it seems to be a never ending source of aggravation for our cousins across the pond, and it drives euro and asian freakin nuttz.

..which is why we do it.

This explains a lot I can write in "padonki" Russian, I used to do it here before "rule #16" so you and other non-Slavonic folks can't understand me using babelfish... But i preserve right Russian. I speak with a Southern accent, according to my roots (Ukraine and Don Cossack warriorship) - but I say "dozhd'" instead of Muscovite "dozhzhz" and so on.

And Russian spelling is at the same time easier and more complicated then English. You are happy to have a grammatically simple language, you don't have cases and other crap that makes Russian easy to understand but almost impossible to speak for a foreigner.

Originally posted by Hangtime
Conversely, and as a backhanded compliment, most americans do not have more than one skilled language.. and depending on who you talk to, even that is debateable. You, estel and several other euro's have a very good  command of our quirky impossible language while we for the most part have no comparable knowledge of yours.

well done.

I appreciate your compliment, but I have to say several things:

1) I don't know any foreigner who studied a language of "potential enemy" for 9 (nine) years at school.

2) We still don't understand many things that have cultural background, like movie quotes - because even if we watched same films we saw them translated. I doubt that You saw any Soviet movies. I can speak Russian that no emigrant who left USSR before 1970 will understand.

3) I already said in a "War of the Worlds" tread that it's possible for me to understand Victorian English, but I will never be able to use it myself Russian is almost the same from 1850s, if you don't mean "argot" that changes with every decade, so i talk to youngsters as if they are ET aliens.

Originally posted by Hangtime
now, go grab a corrupt russian government offcial by the nose and kick 'em in the ballsac a few times for both of us.

I am anxious to do it, but it will mean revolution, and i'm sick of it, I already saw one and it's enough for me.

I'll probably do it late at night, at some expensive restaurant or strip-club door. You are probably right about a ballsac, hitting the head will not work, their heads can't ache, it's a bone

Stechkin is much more persuading then a tomato. They will some day discover that we are eager to use Stechkins instead of tomatos...

Originally posted by Hangtime
yah paranoid commie martyr dionosaur.

I am not a dinosaur, only 190cm tall and 90kg heavy And I am definetly not a martyr: my living conditions are much better then of most of American/European young (in fact not-so-young) men 32 years old, as me.

And I am NOT a commie! I was a member of Comsomol since 1987, but I never was a Party member. I am a Communist mostly because I sincerely wish "happiness, for everyone, for free" and I try to work on it regardless to any whoopee political doctrine.

[Raider179]

Originally posted by Boroda
We paid for "lend-lease". So - please, stop calling it "aid". It was trade. And USSR paid for it three times more price per any item then other "lend-lease" acceptors, like UK. In "business" terms it was not an "aid" but a robbery.

LoL YOU are the only one who brought up Lend-Lease.

Aid is free money such I as I linked to.

as far as lend lease goes, you didnt have to buy it. Stop blaming America for YOUR countries poor choices. Oh we so repressed you and yours. wah.

[Raider179]

Originally posted by Boroda

I hope you understand a difference between a "doomsday machine" and a precise weapon array that will be able to make a surgical strike against enemy after it gets hit. Even with no human operators left.

LoL you just described a DOOMSDAY MACHINE. It launches without humans having anything to do with the decision.

[Russian]

Originally posted by Raider179
LoL you just described a DOOMSDAY MACHINE. It launches without humans having anything to do with the decision.

Can I ask you a personal question? ....just how old are you?

[Raider179]

Originally posted by Russian
Can I ask you a personal question? ....just how old are you?

28, you do see the part where he says, "even with no human operators left"? right?

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Raider179
LoL YOU are the only one who brought up Lend-Lease.

Aid is free money such I as I linked to.

as far as lend lease goes, you didnt have to buy it. Stop blaming America for YOUR countries poor choices. Oh we so repressed you and yours. wah.

Free money? It's a beautifull example of Western mindset. "Besplatniye den'gi" ROTFLMAO!!!

Yes, we didn't have to buy it. It only could cost us another million of lives or two out of 150 millions. Gold sent to the West probably costed more later. It went on Manhattan project.

[Russian]

Originally posted by Raider179
28, you do see the part where he says, "even with no human operators left"? right?

Thanks,

Yes, I see that.  Should that scare me? (it does not)

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Raider179
LoL you just described a DOOMSDAY MACHINE. It launches without humans having anything to do with the decision.

Doomsday machine in "Dr. Strangelove" is a device that is supposed to destroy a whole planet, a thermonuclear monster like a son of a 65 megaton charge tested over Novaya Zemlya in 1963. (1500km without radio for 3 days due to atmospheric ionisation).

I mean that our missiles will launch at designated targets. First targets are your missile farms in Norht Dakota. Then follow other places. ICBM is an only weapon against enemy ICBMs. If a "dead hand" detector receives a punch from an enemy nuclear warhead - it means that boiling soil into a glass in North Dakota is useless and it will switch to other targets.



Then we'll have Chinese exploring what's left of Moscow and Washington. But no nuclear winter or other apocalyptic things.