Release the Hounds

[Nashwan]

It isn't the only way to fight.


And this man showed it is effective from a minority population

Minority population? AFAIK, Indians made up the vast majority of India's population.

The reason non violent protest worked in India is because Britain only ever had a very small number of people there. As of 1901, for example, there were 295 million people in India, less than 100,000 were British.

Indians were the soldiers, the farmers, the railway workers, the beaurercrats, the tax collectors.

The reason non violent protest won't work in Palestine is because Palestinians are a smaller population than the Israelis, they do not do the vital work (in fact many are unemployed and do no work at all).

When Indians stopped work, India came to a halt. If the Palestinians stop work, Israel doesn't even really notice.

[Holden McGroin]

"This man" referred to ML King, and King led protests were highly effective.

[Siaf__csf]

How much would a coal derived gallon of oil/gas cost to the consumers?

My bet is a hell of a lot more than $3 youre paying now.

Europeans have been paying over $3/gallon for a decade already, your gas is still dirt cheap. I can't understand all the crying.

[Holden McGroin]

Estimates of the cost of producing oil from coal vary. But the range is between $25-$40/barrel.

If someone produced to $40 / bbl, they could make 45% profit and still undercut the world price of crude by $2 / bbl

[bozon]

What I do not understand is why the world want Israel to take out the garbage for them.
You think Israel is "straining uppon their stripes" (if you insist on refering to us as hounds), eager to attack Iran?

Wars in Israel do not work like american wars - 1000s of miles from your borders, your "brave soldiers on the front", put your leg up and turn on CNN for the action. Here wars are personal, it's not your brave soldiers on the front, it's YOU on the front. YOU, your brother, your friends. When Israel is at war everything shuts down, that's why they are short and bloody - we can't keep them up for long.

It would be very easy for europe and US if we did attack Iran. Then your could still sit on your fat ass, roll your eyes, lit your holy aura and condemn us for our brutality.

do your own dirty work!

damn.
Bozon

[Skydancer]

Not condemning Bozon. Just trying to get it. And actualy I think you are bang on. its easy to preach war when the closest you come is CNN or News 24.

I'm generaly against war unless it is the very last resort. Sometimes I get asked why I'm such a WW2 Anorak yet I still hold these views. I think the more I learned about that war the more I realised I'm damn lucky not to be living then and that war is brutal bloody dehumanising and to be avoided unless there realy is no other choice.

Thanks for the vote of confidence Beet you ole tory git;)

[FalconSix]

Originally posted by hacksaw1


"As a result of its likely inaccuracy, the missile’s utility is probably restricted to attacking population centers or spreading radiation rather than hitting military targets. The missile is thus probably more of a blackmail or terrorist weapon than a military asset."

LOL! Are these guys for real? They're defining a strategic missile as a "blackmail or terrorist weapon"? Does that mean we have hundreds of "terrorist weapons" in our own arsenal? If so why did we make them, we're not terrorists are we?

Why does Iran want them? Probably for the same reason why we made them for the last 50 years: Deterrent.

[hacksaw1]

Hello Skydancer,

Many Israelis, Jewish and Arab, heartily agree with you and would like to see peaceful coexistence here. And the Palestinians I've met are decent (course, I've never been the target of an attack to this point). One of the last times I did IDF reserve duty of patrolling the border, a 19 year old Arab Bedouin tracker in the regular IDF was assigned to the vehicle. (The IDF has Jewish, Druze and Bedouin units.) Two weeks after my reserve duty was over, there was an attack on the border by Arab infiltrators, and the 19 year old Bedouin tracker was killed in the firefight. I read in the paper that he charged into the ambush, gun blazing, like we were taught in the Marines and in the IDF. So please realize that Israel is not strictly a homogeneous Jewish nation, nor is it defended only by Jews.

During Gulf War I, I had the excruciating experience of witnessing about two dozen of the 40 or so unprovoked Scuds fired from Iraq falling on Tel Aviv (as well as the highly accurate but ineffective Patriot interceptions). Many Palestinians were dancing on their roofs, watching the Scuds go by overhead. Israel made sure that the Palestinians got gas masks, just like Israeli Jews and Arabs. The elderly mother of a friend of mine was unable to cope with the increased tension of Scud missiles fired randomly at population centers and passed away due to stress.

More than ten years ago Israel changed its stance regarding an arch enemy, Yasser Arafat and his PLO, hoping for peace, and signed the Oslo Accords. One of the Israeli leaders involved, Shimon Peres, would be the man of vision you are looking for. But even Peres has said, "The Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity." And only about 5 years ago, Israel's PM, Barak, met Arafat and Clinton at Camp David, and put a serious offer on the table that made even Israelis on the left cringe.

For the record, in 1967, when Egypt and surrounding nations took belligerent steps against Israel, Israel struck in the Six Day War and captured the "Old City" including the Temple Mount. The Israelis immediately returned jurisdiction of the Temple Mount, the holiest of places for the Jewish people, back to the Muslim Waqf, lest there be permanent offence to the Muslim world.

Is everything perfect in Israel? Not yet, not even for a lot the Jewish population.

As far as the actual topic of this thread goes, Bozon has hit the nail on the head for Israelis.

Pray for the Peace of Jerusalem.

Cement

[Hangtime]

Originally posted by FalconSix
LOL! Are these guys for real? They're defining a strategic missile as a "blackmail or terrorist weapon"? Does that mean we have hundreds of "terrorist weapons" in our own arsenal? If so why did we make them, we're not terrorists are we?

Why does Iran want them? Probably for the same reason why we made them for the last 50 years: Deterrent.

Interesting.

They make it plain they support Jihad, you say they got 'em as a 'deterrent'... so beyond positioning youself an advocate for fundamentalist islamic governments having nukes yer point is???

Clue.. a strategic nuclear weapon without a pinpoint guidance system is a terror weapon since it's effectiveness against a hardened military target is negligable. As a military deterrent against a nuclear armed foe WITH pinpoint accuracy it's ludicrious.

[FalconSix]

Originally posted by Hangtime
Interesting.

They make it plain they support Jihad, you say they got 'em as a 'deterrent'... so beyond positioning youself an advocate for fundamentalist islamic governments having nukes yer point is???

Clue.. a strategic nuclear weapon without a pinpoint guidance system is a terror weapon since it's effectiveness against a hardened military target is negligable. As a military deterrent against a nuclear armed foe WITH pinpoint accuracy it's ludicrious.

Military deterrent? You mean all our ICBMs throughout 50 years pointed at eastern block cities were actually targeted at some "hardened military target"?. Surely you're kidding. We pointed them at millions of defenseless civilians (and still are). You don't need pinpoint accuracy to hit a city, even the old V2 managed that.

Ok, lets look at precedents: Iran you say supports "Jihad". Interesting since I can't remember a single country Iran has ever invaded or overtly attacked. If Iran develops medium-long range missiles you think they'll use them against israel and europe? Why then haven't Iran attacked Israel already? They already have missiles that can reach Israel.

Oh that's right, Israel has nukes and Iran knows it is suicide to attack them ... but then you have to admit it also means the Iranians are rational creatures who don't want to die. So much for paranoid demonizing.

[Hangtime]

Originally posted by FalconSix
Military deterrent? You mean all our ICBMs throughout 50 years pointed at eastern block cities were actually targeted at some "hardened military target"?. Surely you're kidding. We pointed them at millions of defenseless civilians (and still are). You don't need pinpoint accuracy to hit a city, even the old V2 managed that.

Ok, lets look at precedents: Iran you say supports "Jihad". Interesting since I can't remember a single country Iran has ever invaded or overtly attacked. If Iran develops medium-long range missiles you think they'll use them against israel and europe? Why then haven't Iran attacked Israel already? They already have missiles that can reach Israel.

Oh that's right, Israel has nukes and Iran knows it is suicide to attack them ... but then you have to admit it also means the Iranians are rational creatures who don't want to die. So much for paranoid demonizing.

Really? Gee, had no idea our successive american goverments have been so bloodthirsty over the years as to target just cites and civilian populations. Had no idea the soviet and chinese missile fields and military assets were not targeted.. whoda thunk it?

And thank you SO much for straightening me out on Iran's peaceful intentions. Obviously it's just retoric they've been spewing ever since the Ayatolla came into power.. poor Shia Mulla's sitting in their dirty little hovels don't have any ill will torwards the west, don't support slaughtering sunni's and westerners out of hand and and would never consider raising a finger towards any peaceful neighboring states attempting to establish a democracy.

So much for apologist aggrandizing.

[FalconSix]

Originally posted by Hangtime
Really? Gee, had no idea our successive american goverments have been so bloodthirsty over the years as to target just cites and civilian populations. Had no idea the soviet and chinese missile fields and military assets were not targeted.. whoda thunk it?

And thank you SO much for straightening me out on Iran's peaceful intentions. Obviously it's just retoric they've been spewing ever since the Ayatolla came into power.. poor Shia Mulla's sitting in their dirty little hovels don't have any ill will torwards the west, don't support slaughtering sunni's and westerners out of hand and and would never consider raising a finger towards any peaceful neighboring states attempting to establish a democracy.

So much for apologist aggrandizing.

You care to quote some of the ayatollah's "rhetoric"? I bet you don't even know his name, let alone what he has said.

What "anti-west rhetoric" has the ayatollah "spewed"?

When did Iran or the ayatollah support "slaughtering sunnis and westerners"?

When has Iran "raised a finger" toward any peaceful neighboring states attempting to establish a democracy?

On what do you base your opinion of the Iranians and their intentions?

[Raider179]

Originally posted by FalconSix
Surely you're kidding. We pointed them at millions of defenseless civilians (and still are). You don't need pinpoint accuracy to hit a city, even the old V2 managed that.

Ok, lets look at precedents: Iran you say supports "Jihad". Interesting since I can't remember a single country Iran has ever invaded or overtly attacked. If Iran develops medium-long range missiles you think they'll use them against israel and europe? Why then haven't Iran attacked Israel already? They already have missiles that can reach Israel.

 

1) You sure we still point our nukes at cities?

"In May 1994 the U.S. de-targeted its ICBMs for the first time in 15 years as a belated acknowledgment of the Cold War’s end."

2)Hezzbollah

[FalconSix]

Originally posted by Raider179
1) You sure we still point our nukes at cities?

"In May 1994 the U.S. de-targeted its ICBMs for the first time in 15 years as a belated acknowledgment of the Cold War’s end."

Yes I'm sure. We just have to push two buttons now instead of one. [SELECT TARGET] *click* [LAUNCH] *click*

Or you can click and drag the selected city into the recycle bin.

[FalconSix]

Originally posted by Raider179
2)Hezzbollah

What about Hezbollah?