Author Topic: Is the rank system pro LA7, vulch & camp ?  (Read 2247 times)

Offline Zazen13

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Is the rank system pro LA7, vulch & camp ?
« Reply #45 on: August 12, 2005, 11:22:07 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mustaine
i think you underestimate that power of stupidity :rofl :D


I usually do, it's been a source of profound consternation throughout my life. ;)

Zazen
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Offline Stone

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Is the rank system pro LA7, vulch & camp ?
« Reply #46 on: August 12, 2005, 11:28:10 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mustaine
you got that a bit messed up actually...

the whole f4f thing is only for PERKS which are completely different than RANK.  


If only landed kills would count for K/D K/T K/S, and the perk earned would be used to multiply to the score, things would maybe be very different ?

I know this is not the case now. The way things are now, the game rewards flying fast planes, with huge canons, vulching as many kills before a certain deth.

But IF the kills would not count at all, if not landed, and IF the perk multiplyer would effect the rank, maybe we THEN would get more players actualy trying to survive and matbe even fly early war planes.

But the community seems to admire those who land 10 or more kills.

The text buffer fills up on all channels with WTG and Even if the guy admits that all kills were vulches.

Offline Zazen13

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Is the rank system pro LA7, vulch & camp ?
« Reply #47 on: August 12, 2005, 11:35:23 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Stone
If only landed kills would count for K/D K/T K/S, and the perk earned would be used to multiply to the score, things would maybe be very different ?

I know this is not the case now. The way things are now, the game rewards flying fast planes, with huge canons, vulching as many kills before a certain deth.

But IF the kills would not count at all, if not landed, and IF the perk multiplyer would effect the rank, maybe we THEN would get more players actualy trying to survive and matbe even fly early war planes.

But the community seems to admire those who land 10 or more kills.

The text buffer fills up on all channels with WTG and Even if the guy admits that all kills were vulches.


Yup, exactly. If I were HT I would try modifying score the same as perks (by relative plane ENY value and Country ENY number multiplier). The worst possible effect it could have is no effect at all. Yet, it has the potential of bringing much greater diversity, variety and parity to the MA on many levels. All this while not disrupting gameplay for the average player at all. Those not concerned with their fighter rank can go about their business in ignorant bliss. Those concerned with their fighter rank have a few more tools in their set to potentially give themselves an edge in the heated Fighter Rank competition, those being, flying for the under-manned side and flying early war planes.

As Mandoble mentioned, fighter score is weighted heavily in favor of that tiny fraction of players who have the luxury of being able to fly 8+ hours a day, this would act as an equalizer to help mitigate that fact. For example, you can either fly 8+ hours a day in an La7 on the largest team for X score or you can fly 2-3 hours a day in a P40b on the under-manned side for the same X score. At the time I originally broached this concept with HiTech he was madly infatuated with the whole ENY limiting concept to the total exclusion of all other ideas, I suspect he's a bit more open-minded at this point. This concept could work along-side the ENY limiter in perfect harmony. This whole idea has always seemed Win-Win to me, but what do I know, I'm just a mind-less dweeb. ;)

Formula would be something like:

Landing modifier(Damage X Relative Plane ENY) X Country Number ENY = Score



Zazen
« Last Edit: August 12, 2005, 12:27:51 PM by Zazen13 »
Zazen PhD of Cherrypickology
Author of, "The Zen Art of Cherrypicking" and other related works.
Quote, "Cherrypicking is a state of mind & being, not only Art and Scienc

Offline Aubrey

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Is the rank system pro LA7, vulch & camp ?
« Reply #48 on: August 12, 2005, 01:32:31 PM »
WoW !  ( this is not  a slam ) you guys have some huge brains to be able to figure this stuff out.  I have one question how does this affect a guy like me that is flying a slow plane mostly FM2 and ups to defend or attack. I do not like to HO but will if a guy comes at me. I also like all the play GVs ships JABO and bombers

I play to improve my skills not for points how does one measure that. I am looking at K/D at the and of every month but... It does not tell me any thing, well it is getting better over time.  I just try to keep a feel of how I am flying overall.  Any ideas?

Offline Zazen13

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Is the rank system pro LA7, vulch & camp ?
« Reply #49 on: August 12, 2005, 02:06:00 PM »
Just imagine for a moment how great the fights in the MA would be if HO kills and vulches didn't grant perks or fighter score just like proxies. Even better if they were not counted as kills at all on the score sheet...Food for thought anyways...;)

Zazen
« Last Edit: August 12, 2005, 02:18:00 PM by Zazen13 »
Zazen PhD of Cherrypickology
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Quote, "Cherrypicking is a state of mind & being, not only Art and Scienc

Offline Vad

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Is the rank system pro LA7, vulch & camp ?
« Reply #50 on: August 12, 2005, 02:10:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Stone
If only landed kills would count for K/D K/T K/S, and the perk earned would be used to multiply to the score, things would maybe be very different ?
 


They will for sure.

What we will get is hordes flying and looking for easy kill and running from any threat. Even if they will fly P40 it won't make game more interesting.

It was told many times: La7 or Dora is not the problem, the way how they are flown is the problem. Dive from 15 K, HO and run away - this is what irritates people.

If kills were not counted without landing I would for sure fly ONLY La7. Less points and less k/d is much better than nothing at all in the case of death. Amd La7 gives me much more chances to survive.

Offline Vad

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Is the rank system pro LA7, vulch & camp ?
« Reply #51 on: August 12, 2005, 02:19:16 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Zazen13
Just imagine how great the fights in the MA would be if HO kills and vulches didn't grant perks or fighter score just like proxies. Even better if they were not counted as kills at all on the score sheet...Food for thought anyways...;)

Zazen


Proxies affect fighter score, k/d, k/s, etc. , and doesn't differ from any other kills. Only perks are not affected.

Remember the thread where somebody told about deliberate crashes to prevent getting perk points for winner? You want to get this behavior predominant?

Offline hitech

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Is the rank system pro LA7, vulch & camp ?
« Reply #52 on: August 12, 2005, 02:20:52 PM »
Never mind.

Offline Zazen13

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Is the rank system pro LA7, vulch & camp ?
« Reply #53 on: August 12, 2005, 02:21:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Vad
Proxies affect fighter score, k/d, k/s, etc. , and doesn't differ from any other kills. Only perks are not affected.

Remember the thread where somebody told about deliberate crashes to prevent getting perk points for winner? You want to get this behavior predominant?


Yup, I meant to say points, not score in the first sentence. Proxies give no fighter points, they do affect fighter score insofar as they add a kill to your total.

Zazen
« Last Edit: August 12, 2005, 02:31:54 PM by Zazen13 »
Zazen PhD of Cherrypickology
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Quote, "Cherrypicking is a state of mind & being, not only Art and Scienc

Offline Zazen13

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Is the rank system pro LA7, vulch & camp ?
« Reply #54 on: August 12, 2005, 02:23:02 PM »
It's largely because vulching is and always will remain the single best way to rack up both a purdy fighter score and alot of perks in the shortest possible time the ENY limiter is largely ineffective in and of itself. Regardless of the ENY penalty your team is afflicted with it is still more lucrative to play for the largest team and vulch in a 60 ENY P40B. Your only other option is to play for the gang-banged team and get vulched repeatedly in a 10 perk cost 262, not an appealing scenario. Guess what most prefer to do if not simply log-off ? (the ones getting gang-banged still log-off more than the ones being punished by the ENY by a large margin exacerbating the issue even further).

There is also the feeling on the ENY penalized team of why switch? I am giving the other team an advantage over me, it is in effect handicapping my team already. They would rather play with their friends and squadrons handicapped than the gang-banged team un-fettered by ENY. Noone likes to feel coerced into doing something, it's human nature. It's like the old anology of the man wearing the coat. The ENY limiter is like the wind trying to blow the coat off the man, but it's no use the man just grips his coat tightly around himself indignant to the wind. The sun, on the other hand, beams warmy thru the clouds, warming the man gently, he removes his coat willingly and happily. How about using the ENY calculation system and applying it as an incentive, rather than a punishment, by applying it to fighter point calculations this would be like the sun warming the coat off the man.

 I'm not saying doing away with the ENY limiter completely,  it is worthwhile in certain extreme circumstances (ie: I can't remember the last time Rooks staged an RJO). But, for the purpose of gently persuading players to balance themselves over time augmenting it with the same fighter point modifiers that apply to perks would work wonders.

The reason I believe it will work wonders is the fact that 20% of the Fighter pilots get 80% of the air to air kills a month. Of that top 20% a good many of them will be concerned with their fighter rank and would want to exploit any benefit to their scores they could via early war plane selection and playing for the underdogs. The ENY system alone isn't good for moving the top 20% that get 80% of the kills. It is, however, wonderfull at irritating and annoying the hell out of the less talented bottom 80% of players (paying customers) that only get 20% of the kills and therefore have a relatively small impact per capita on gameplay compared to their top 20% counter-parts. The bottom 80% are far more dramatically impacted by ENY limitations as they are likely not adept with multiple planes especially relatively poor performing planes. So, in terms of bang for your buck, moving that top 20% around with positive incentives would be far more effective than attempting to move a small portion of the bottom 80% around with punishment as the ENY system attempts but fails to do now.



Zazen
« Last Edit: August 12, 2005, 03:10:30 PM by Zazen13 »
Zazen PhD of Cherrypickology
Author of, "The Zen Art of Cherrypicking" and other related works.
Quote, "Cherrypicking is a state of mind & being, not only Art and Scienc

Offline Stone

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Is the rank system pro LA7, vulch & camp ?
« Reply #55 on: August 14, 2005, 02:43:40 AM »
Most of my deths has been wheels on runway this morning.

I fail to see the "chalange" and the "fun factor" in all this ?

3 guys ranked below 30, vulched the field over and over. Even if there was high cons, they just zoom in on the run way to get the easy kill ?

I mean, if you could get a kill just by pressing the space bar, you would do it right?

Dig up a old C64 and make a AH3 for the score potatos :)

Then the first one to press space bar when seing a red icon on the run way wins :aok

Offline Zazen13

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Is the rank system pro LA7, vulch & camp ?
« Reply #56 on: August 14, 2005, 12:25:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Stone
Most of my deths has been wheels on runway this morning.

I fail to see the "chalange" and the "fun factor" in all this ?

3 guys ranked below 30, vulched the field over and over. Even if there was high cons, they just zoom in on the run way to get the easy kill ?

I mean, if you could get a kill just by pressing the space bar, you would do it right?

Dig up a old C64 and make a AH3 for the score potatos :)

Then the first one to press space bar when seing a red icon on the run way wins :aok


Yup, because vulching is and always will remain, unless HiTech changes something, the best way to maintain a high fighter rank and farm perks. This is the whole basis of my argument and an immutable truth.

Zazen
Zazen PhD of Cherrypickology
Author of, "The Zen Art of Cherrypicking" and other related works.
Quote, "Cherrypicking is a state of mind & being, not only Art and Scienc

Offline BTW

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Is the rank system pro LA7, vulch & camp ?
« Reply #57 on: August 14, 2005, 01:29:49 PM »
If HTC would remove bomber hits and planes on the ground hits from hit% calculations, I think that would be a good measure of pilot ability. Having bomber hits and vulches included in that calculation makes it much less useful.

Hit % is a combination of aim and flying ability ( you have to position yourself for the shot). You can't win if you cant hit.
Also he needs to throw out the luck factor. The ran generator sucks (imo).

Offline Delirium

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Is the rank system pro LA7, vulch & camp ?
« Reply #58 on: August 14, 2005, 01:43:48 PM »
I don't see the draw towards having an uber score...

Does it get you laid on your 'off-AH time'? No...

Does it give you money to use offline? No...

Does it give you the power over life and death? No...

Does it give you the ability to not pay taxes? No...

Does it give you the right to put 'AH Veteran' on your license plate? No.. (thankfully)
---

All it does is give you the ability to control CVs.. if gaming the game to obtain some imaginary score on an online game is what gives you perverse pleasure, enjoy. Obviously, you do your stick stirring alone, both on and offline.
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Offline Zazen13

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Is the rank system pro LA7, vulch & camp ?
« Reply #59 on: August 14, 2005, 02:28:59 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Delirium
I don't see the draw towards having an uber score...

Does it get you laid on your 'off-AH time'? No...

Does it give you money to use offline? No...

Does it give you the power over life and death? No...

Does it give you the ability to not pay taxes? No...

Does it give you the right to put 'AH Veteran' on your license plate? No.. (thankfully)
---

All it does is give you the ability to control CVs.. if gaming the game to obtain some imaginary score on an online game is what gives you perverse pleasure, enjoy. Obviously, you do your stick stirring alone, both on and offline.


Just from my perspective and observations. What the statisctics provide is a sense of continuity. That is from camp to camp you can maintain a sense of whether your Hit % is getting better for example or whether you are becoming more able to survive engagements on average. Even from day to day or sortie to sortie it allows you to get on a streak and actually, tangibly, 'see' the positive effects on your sheet and feel a sense of real accomplishment.

Without the statistics it would be rather impossible to objectively determine whether you are doing really poorly in one area or improving dramatically in another. I think it just adds to the whole 'satisfaction factor' for some, but obviously not all people. In the pure sense, knowing your statistics is a way to know yourself and thru that knowledge comes greater power to learn and improve. Without the statistics this would really become an arcade game, each sortie just another of infinite 'lives' in a never-ending succession not bound by any common thread to give it any relative meaning or relevance to another.

Zazen
« Last Edit: August 14, 2005, 02:32:33 PM by Zazen13 »
Zazen PhD of Cherrypickology
Author of, "The Zen Art of Cherrypicking" and other related works.
Quote, "Cherrypicking is a state of mind & being, not only Art and Scienc