Author Topic: Just Talk to Her Already  (Read 3687 times)

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2005, 09:14:42 AM »
Yep.. he should become her private shrink and set up weekly appointments.

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Offline Gunthr

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« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2005, 11:14:29 AM »
Phil Hendrie describes the situation very well in my opinion:

Quote
Casey Sheehan was a re-enlistee with the Army's 1st Cavalry. He knew he was going to fight. He understood that. He embraced it. He fought like a soldier. And like a soldier he died, killed in April of 2004, in Sadr City, Iraq.

Casey's mom, Cindy, doesn't quite get it. She is a mother who has lost her son to a war. Convinced she knows more about the costs of war than other parents who've suffered similar loss, she has parked herself outside President Bush's ranch in Crawford, Texas.  Full of judgment and hate, calling him "selected," not elected, blaming him personally for the death of her son, this clueless woman is going to sit there until the President comes out. She's going to set him straight.

Cindy Sheehan is another bereaved parent that the anti-Iraq War movement has run its game on. Manipulating her in her sadness and anger, they've created a self-righteous ignoramus. Casey Sheehan was cut down by foreign insurgents, the same Saudi-Iranian-Syrian animals that carved up Nick Berg. But to Cindy, the man who killed her son is George Bush. Cindy believes Bush lied about our reasons for going to war and thus led her son to his death through outright deceit.

The "Bush Lied" theory has been debated and discredited but Anti-War Mom hasn't noticed. Cindy Sheehan isn't outside the Bush ranch as a truth-seeker. She's there for her public-relations potency. "I want people to know the real costs of war," she says. A mother grieving her loss. The inhumanity of war. Oh, the wickedness of it all. It's the anti-Iraq War Propaganda Machine working the sewer again.

The philosophy of the September 10th movement can be boiled down to this: "If we hadn't started anything....... then nothing would have started." Like a parent encouraging a child to avoid bullies by walking 2 blocks out of the way, the September 10th movement believes that avoidance and non-engagement would have been the way to avert 9/11, the Gulf War, Beirut...maybe even World War Two. Since that didn't happen, the anti-Iraq war Poseurs set out to revise history so they can shore up politically. "Clinton had nothing to do with any of this. It was all Bush and he (just to add a touch of true malevolence) LIED!!" No proof is offered of course.  Proof means truth. And the truth is this war was unavoidable, brought on by an historic clash of culture and ideal, powered by the American people themselves, rising to meet the future, pissing off the rag heads.

Anti-War Mom raised her children in the American culture of struggle, progress, success and failure. Like many, she refused to take ownership of her government, preferring the platitude of loving her country. No people own their government more than the American people. And no other people in the world more strenuously disassociate from it when the going gets tough. And the going is always the toughest when times are good and war arrives. For Cindy Sheehan and millions of other moms the inconvenience of this could not be overstated. While she was busy chasing the good life, made possible by the millions of backstairs deals cut globally everyday through American corporations and politicians (not to mention enforced by an international security apparatus) her good life was coming up against other considerations authored in the caves of Pakistan.

At first, since it was a question of country, not government, Anti-War Mom supported the war although her loyalty to one and not the other began to impede her ability to understand things clearly. When news arrived of her sons death, her tenuous line to reality snapped. Not only was she not at all responsible for her government, she didn't much like the country either, lecturing her fellow citizens on the costs of war, arrogant in the depths of her ignorance about the prices others have paid.

Anti-War Mom might be powerful had she any ideas of her own. But since she is a mouth-piece for the September 10th movement her guns are empty. The Anti-War movement in America continues to lack anything approaching ideas or answers. But it does encourage Anti-War Mom to live in the past. It's where her son lives, they tell her. So she joins the other wayfarers in the desert, nomads whose camels follow the camel ahead, all going in a circle.

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Offline Gunslinger

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« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2005, 11:14:56 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nash
Excellent post?

That was BS. In like a hundred different ways.
 

do you have anything to actually dispute what seagoon said.  I think Seagoon is a compasionate person and wouldn't post something inflamatory for political reasons.Does somone just automatically get a pass when it comes to motivations because they are a grieving mother?

Politics aside I grieve for this womans loss, but she needs to move on with the grieving process.  From my experience that just takes time really.

Offline Nash

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« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2005, 11:54:13 AM »
Gunslinger, I'd like you to compare these two sentences:

Casey voluntarily re-enlisted in the Army after his first hitch was up, earned a Bronze Star, and as a mechanic was not expected to see combat but volunteered to join a rapid rescue team being formed to get a convoy of soldiers from his unit out of trouble in Sadr City (that action being the one in which he died).

Casey, who voluntarily re-enlisted in the Army after his first hitch was up, who earned a Bronze Star, and who as a mechanic was not expected to see combat but who volunteered to join a rapid rescue team being formed to get a convoy of soldiers from his unit out of trouble in Sadr City, that action being the one in which he died, seemed want to serve.

One is from Seagoon, and one is from somewhere else. I realize that people are going to get bent out of shape over Sheehan, but I think digging up dirt on this chick is weak. She's an anti-war protester. Absolutely. But..... So what?

Who cares what her aunts think? Who even cares what Casey would have thought? Who cares if she thought something else a year ago, and changed her mind this year?

She is a woman who lost her son, she has some problems with that, and she has every right to say so. It's really just that simple.

I shouldn't have wandered into this thread, because I really don't care about it. It's about the last I'm gonna say on this - I hope.

Offline DREDIOCK

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« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2005, 12:12:20 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SaburoS
Yeah, that would kind of open the floodgates to "have" to meet every parent that demands it. I don't know of any President that would have that kind of courage and patience.


Or time.

On thinking about it though wouldnt it be a novel idea if all world leaders had to at some point give an audience to all  the parents who have lost their children to war?

I understand that war is a necessary evil.That sometimes must be waged in defence or our national interests
 And I was and still am in favor of this one.

But it might make leaders less likely to wage it. (Excluding psychopaths such as Saddam, Hitler and the like)
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Offline DREDIOCK

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« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2005, 12:42:14 PM »
Two key words about Casey.
"voluntarily"
"volunteered"
 He "voluntarily" re-upped
He "volunteered" to go on the mission he died in.

As far as Im concenred what Casey himself thought is of the utmost consideration

He knew the score and he went anyway "voluntarily"

This isnt like Nam where you were selected and plucked out of your home,school or college. and told you were going whether you wanted to or not. He chose to do this of his own free will.

He must have beleived in what he was doing because he knew the dangers involved and that there was a chance he could loose his life due to any number of reasons there yet chose to do it again anyway. Otherwise. Why would he?

IMO I understand her loss but she is doing a great disservice to her son and his memory.

You understand going into the services that when you join there is a chance you will be sent to war. Wherever, whenever and for WHATEVER reasons are given. Be it for WMDs, Oil. OR simply because the guy in charge doesnt like people with mustaches that have had 10 facelifts. Thats your job.

You dont sign up. Then sign up again if you dont beleive in what your doing.

Thats your choice. That was his choice.
He made his choice and it was just that. HIS choice
Death is no easy answer
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Offline Toad

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« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2005, 12:42:30 PM »
Cindy Sheehan met with Bush at Fort Lewis near Seattle on June 24, 2004. Reports say her family had about 10 minutes with him. From news reports at the time, she was satisfied with the visit.

Now she's not; she's angry. That's certainly her business.

She wants to meet with Bush again; certainly her business.

Now why does she think Bush should have to meet with her again? If this next visit doesn't satisfy her after another year of reflection, will she ask for another "do over"?

I'm of the opinion she had her shot at Bush. She can stay P.O.'d as long as she likes, she can vigil all she likes, she can press release all she likes but the simple fact is........

Bush already met with her and she had her chance to talk to him already.

Done deal.
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Offline Raider179

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« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2005, 01:25:06 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Seagoon
Hi Raider,

I hope you will believe me when I say that I have enormous amounts of compassion and respect for military families, and unfortunately I too know and have grieved with people who have lost loved ones in Iraq. However, this particular incident has become politics, pure and simple.

For instance, as you noted the President originally met with Sheehan at the White House a couple of months after the death of her son. In an article published 06/24/2004 and available here
the Sheehan family stated the following (it's worth reading carefully):
-------------
"Surreal soon seemed like an understatement, as the Sheehans - one of 17 families who met Thursday with Bush - were whisked in a matter of days to the Army post and given the VIP treatment from the military. But as their meeting with the president approached, the family was faced with a dilemma as to what to say when faced with Casey's commander-in-chief.

"We haven't been happy with the way the war has been handled," Cindy said. "The president has changed his reasons for being over there every time a reason is proven false or an objective reached."

The 10 minutes of face time with the president could have given the family a chance to vent their frustrations or ask Bush some of the difficult questions they have been asking themselves, such as whether Casey's sacrifice would make the world a safer place.

But in the end, the family decided against such talk, deferring to how they believed Casey would have wanted them to act. In addition, Pat noted that Bush wasn't stumping for votes or trying to gain a political edge for the upcoming election.

"We have a lot of respect for the office of the president, and I have a new respect for him because he was sincere and he didn't have to take the time to meet with us," Pat said.

Sincerity was something Cindy had hoped to find in the meeting. Shortly after Casey died, Bush sent the family a form letter expressing his condolences, and Cindy said she felt it was an impersonal gesture.

"I now know he's sincere about wanting freedom for the Iraqis," Cindy said after their meeting. "I know he's sorry and feels some pain for our loss. And I know he's a man of faith."

The meeting didn't last long, but in their time with Bush, Cindy spoke about Casey and asked the president to make her son's sacrifice count for something. They also spoke of their faith.

While meeting with Bush, as well as Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona, was an honor, it was almost a tangent benefit of the trip. The Sheehans said they enjoyed meeting the other families of fallen soldiers, sharing stories, contact information, grief and support.

For some, grief was still visceral and raw, while for others it had melted into the background of their lives, the pain as common as breathing. Cindy said she saw her reflection in the troubled eyes of each.

"It's hard to lose a son," she said. "But we (all) lost a son in the Iraqi war."

The trip had one benefit that none of the Sheehans expected.

For a moment, life returned to the way it was before Casey died. They laughed, joked and bickered playfully as they briefly toured Seattle.

For the first time in 11 weeks, they felt whole again.

"That was the gift the president gave us, the gift of happiness, of being together," Cindy said. "

-----------
Elsewhere, it has been confirmed that her son's politics and her own as well as their views of the war have always differed. Her son clearly believed in the Iraq effort and volunteered for it. In fact her son, Casey legitimately deserves considerable respect. Casey voluntarily re-enlisted in the Army after his first hitch was up, earned a Bronze Star, and as a mechanic was not expected to see combat but volunteered to join a rapid rescue team being formed to get a convoy of soldiers from his unit out of trouble in Sadr City (that action being the one in which he died).

One has only to contrast that with some of her recent statements including railing against neo-cons and her statements to the effect that "he knew it the war was wrong the whole family knew, etc" which is currently being denied by the rest of the Sheehan family:

"The Sheehan Family lost our beloved Casey in the Iraq War and we have been silently, respectfully grieving. We do not agree with the political motivations and publicity tactics of Cindy Sheehan. She now appears to be promoting her own personal agenda and notoriety at the the expense of her son’s good name and reputation. The rest of the Sheehan Family supports the troops, our country, and our President, silently, with prayer and respect."

Sincerely,

Casey Sheehan’s grandparents, aunts, uncles and numerous cousins.


Cindy, was and always has been a left-winger, unfortunately she is now being actively exploited by people like Michael Moore, which is bad enough, what I find intolerable is that she is using the death of her son in such a blatantly political manner, and probably not one that he himself would have appreciated or approved of.

It would be analogous to my parents forming a group to protest against Christian missions in Muslim countries if I were killed while serving as a missionary out there.

- SEAGOON [/B]


Do you not think it possible that because of the Valerie Plume leak by someone in the Bush Administration and the Downing Street Memo, could have caused her to change her views on the war? And now she, just like many Americans want answers. The difference is that Her Son died and she wants to know why...

I saw that letter. Know what else is missing from it?
Here let me help you...

 "In addition to his parents, Patrick and Cindy, Sheehan is survived by his brother, Andy, and sisters, Carly and Jane."

The "family" you speak of is not whose opinions matter. They are extended family. His Family is his Mom, Dad, Brother and His two sisters. I notice none of them signed this letter.

Did you know that the death of her son caused the breakup of their marriage? This is a lady that is obviously broken up about the death of her son. Where is the compassion Bush loves to talk about? All he would need to do is spend a few minutes with this woman and let her vent, then explain her son is a hero and let her go on her way.  But instead he prolongs it, as if he is sooo busy he can't help a greiving mother come to terms with the loss of her son.

Maybe she is being exploited but its also possible that the ones who are "exploiting" her are the only ones who are helping her and to get what she wants she is letting her self be used. She needs publicity or else she has no chance of seeing Bush.

As for her quotes you forgot the one where she said "Bush didn't even know his name" from the 1st meeting between them.

It would only be analogous if someone besides yourself, sent you there, not because you went upon your own choice to do missionary work. But really there is no analogy to this, nothing even comes close to comparison.

Offline Raider179

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« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2005, 01:27:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Agreed. it is terrible to loose a child and that she lost hers. AndI can understand her greif and the process. I can imagine nothing worse.
But the president cant just up and meet with every greiving parent whenever they want a meeting with him


Sorry but I only see 1 greiving parent demanding a meeting. And maybe if the President knows he is going to have to face to face explain himself to people whose son's and daughter's got killed based on his decisions, maybe he will be a little more selective in his decisions and not just go off playing Cowboy in Texas for weeks at a time.

Offline Toad

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« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2005, 01:28:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Raider179
Sorry but I only see 1 greiving parent demanding a meeting.


No,  you see 1 grieving parent demanding a second meeting.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2005, 01:32:44 PM by Toad »
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Offline Hawklore

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« Reply #25 on: August 14, 2005, 01:29:17 PM »
Pres. Bush should talk to her. def.

Comfort her...

I mean who wouldn't?
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Offline Gunslinger

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« Reply #26 on: August 14, 2005, 01:31:36 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Raider179
Where is the compassion Bush loves to talk about?

Cindy Sheehan met with Bush at Fort Lewis near Seattle on June 24, 2004. Reports say her family had about 10 minutes with him. From news reports at the time, she was satisfied with the visit.
Quote

 All he would need to do is spend a few minutes with this woman and let her vent, then explain her son is a hero and let her go on her way.

Cindy Sheehan met with Bush at Fort Lewis near Seattle on June 24, 2004. Reports say her family had about 10 minutes with him. From news reports at the time, she was satisfied with the visit.
Quote

 But instead he prolongs it, as if he is sooo busy he can't help a greiving mother come to terms with the loss of her son.

Cindy Sheehan met with Bush at Fort Lewis near Seattle on June 24, 2004. Reports say her family had about 10 minutes with him. From news reports at the time, she was satisfied with the visit.
Quote

Maybe she is being exploited but its also possible that the ones who are "exploiting" her are the only ones who are helping her and to get what she wants she is letting her self be used. She needs publicity or else she has no chance of seeing Bush.
[/b]
Cindy Sheehan met with Bush at Fort Lewis near Seattle on June 24, 2004. Reports say her family had about 10 minutes with him. From news reports at the time, she was satisfied with the visit.

watch out raider, your on the border of turning this all into a political thing mentioning leaks and memos.  I thaught this was about a grieving mother?

Offline Raider179

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« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2005, 01:39:22 PM »
Because the leaks and memo's are "WHY" she changed her mind. maybe you didnt catch that part.

"Do you not think it possible that because of the Valerie Plume leak by someone in the Bush Administration and the Downing Street Memo, could have caused her to change her views on the war? And now she, just like many Americans want answers. The difference is that Her Son died and she wants to know why..."

This is my understanding of what I have read. She looks at it different now because there is "evidence" in her mind that She was lied to, thus warranting a second meeting. But I think he should meet her (again, Toad you stickler, lol) and that would do it. No more meetings with her, but one more could only help this lady get over her son. And that is what is important.

Offline FUNKED1

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« Reply #28 on: August 14, 2005, 02:21:58 PM »
Quote
Because the leaks and memo's are "WHY" she changed her mind.

Well, that, and the juicy paychecks from various DNC/Soros related organizations...

Offline Dago

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« Reply #29 on: August 14, 2005, 02:53:16 PM »
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"