Just Talk to Her Already

[Toad]

Originally posted by Raider179
I think you have the Revolutionary war, which we gained our independence from England, with the Civil War which was North vs. South.

[/b]

No, I don't have them confused. I'm pointing out that even though we had a more unified approach and more unified population when forming our Republic, it really wasn't fully formed and settled for 100 years. We had to have a Civil War to get into this government we have now.

It wouldn't suprise me if the Iraqis had to shed blood in a similar fashion to establish their government by the people in a form that will alst.

Living with Dictatorship as opposed to getting 2000 of our soldiers get killed so that Iraq can eventually fall into chaos and many more people will die? We didnt have enough boots on the ground at the beginning and we don't have enough there now. If we are gonna do, we ought to do it right. This war has been mis-handled and mis-managed from the get-go.

[/b]

1. Iraq may NOT fall into chaos after they get their constitution and election. They may slowly make progress towards standing on their own, albeit with some continuing violence. Clearly there are influences both inside and outside Iraq that want them to fail.

2. So what do you suggest we do to "do it right"? What's your solution? It's easy to complain; tell me what you want done.

I'm  sorry did I miss the part of our Constitution where it says people have certain rights as long as it doesnt contradict Christianity? Cause I missed that part.

[/b]

I'm sorry, did I miss the part that says the new Iraqi Constitution should be the exact mirror of ours? Because I missed that part. Anyone who thinks Islam will have no influence in the new Constitution is living in a dream world, IMO.

Further, you did note that OUR Constitution had a Bill of Rights attached soon after ratification and that it has been amended a few times? You expect the Iraqis to get it perfect first pass?

[quote\Something wrong with being critical?  [/QUOTE]

Not at all. Criticism is valuable feedback; it's your right and responsibility.

However, you seem concerned with the idea that

We are gonna sneak out of Iraq at the first opportunity and leave them to their fate

[/b].

What are YOU doing to prevent that? Are your posts here likely to encourage or discourage that behavior/attitude in the folks that read your posts.

Do you submit you criticism to your elected representatives? We see it here; do you send it to the Congress and President?

What suggestions do you make to ensure that we DO NOT sneak out? Do you submit those to Congress or the President?

I watched the entire VietNam debacle. I was in the military when we evacuated Saigon. I saw a lot of criticism of the government then too. What I didn't see was any suggested solution that was better than what the government was trying to do.

I see a lot of similarity between that and what's going on now.

[Toad]

Originally posted by Raider179


2) I see another day gone by where he could have ended all the attention she was getting. But I think he was golfing today.

Semantics? Slant is probably more accurate. Spin if you like. She wants a do-over, that's all. Her views haven't changed one iota, DSM notwithstanding. There's nothing "new" in her views.



What I see is another day gone by where the majority of folks don't care that she's camped out in Texas. I think most folks recognize her efforts for what they are, an attempt at a do-over.

It's only "newsworthy" to those that are Bushophobic.

The rest of us know what happens in war, understand the grief of losing loved ones, realize that Iraq is a difficult problem and that we can't just walk away from it. In short, we don't like it but we realize we're in it now.

[Raider179]

Originally posted by Toad
[B

2. So what do you suggest we do to "do it right"? What's your solution? It's easy to complain; tell me what you want done.

 [/B]

We have to ride it out. But our country needs to be on a "war footing". We need more troops. We need more/better equipment/armor. We need vehicles that are suited for combat inside Iraqi cities. The Stryker is alright but you need more protection from IED's. More funding for CIA ops inside Iraq. Not sure what the budget is for it right now, but more will always help. Not sure if we would have to have a draft in order to raise troop levels but if so, then so be it. Hell the way things have been going in Afghanistan lately, might need more personel there as well.

[Raider179]

Originally posted by Toad
Semantics? Slant is probably more accurate. Spin if you like. She wants a do-over, that's all. Her views haven't changed one iota, DSM notwithstanding. There's nothing "new" in her views.



What I see is another day gone by where the majority of folks don't care that she's camped out in Texas. I think most folks recognize her efforts for what they are, an attempt at a do-over.

It's only "newsworthy" to those that are Bushophobic.

The rest of us know what happens in war, understand the grief of losing loved ones, realize that Iraq is a difficult problem and that we can't just walk away from it. In short, we don't like it but we realize we're in it now.

So what if its a do-over. What if it is? What does that mean? People get do-overs all the time. I didn't realize the president had rules that say "I only meet people 1 time, after that, I never have to see you again".

Of course she is grief stricken and like I said, if it helps her get better over the death of her Son to yell at bush for a minute, then he should show some compassion and take it like man. Not hide behind his staff.

[Toad]

More troops. Absolutely. Didn't have enough to begin with, I think. At long last, after 35 years in my opinion, the ridiculous idea that we can fight two major wars on opposite sides of the globe simultaneously is being exposed for the farce it always was. Even if they were meeting the enlistment goals, the force would still be too small for operating as they desire to operate (1 year tours).

It's up to Congress to authorize an increase in the size of the forces. Written to your reps about that lately?

Better armor is on the way.

For the second time since the Iraq war began, the Pentagon is replacing body armor for U.S. troops in Afghanistan and Iraq, citing a need for better protection that can withstand the strongest of attacks from insurgents, a spokesman said Saturday.

It's going to take a while though.

"If I had the capability, I'd like to see everybody that needs enhanced SAPI to have it and at the rate we have now, we're going to have months before we get the kind of aggregate numbers we want to have," General Catto said, referring to the thicker plates, known as the Enhanced Small Arms Protective Insert. "That's just a fact of life because of the raw materials paucity and the industrial base."

Written to your Congressmen about expanding the industrial base for the military in the US?  The dreaded "military-industrial complex"?

There's
Lots of new stuff coming .

Afghanistan? It's heating up. Why? 7 weeks until Parliamentary elections. I think you realize there's folks that don't want Afghanistan to succeed with a democratic form of government.

But there are some positives.
28 suspected Taliban killed

The good news there isn't the death of the Taliban. It's that in those events it was Afghan military and police that were involved, not US/UN forces. The Afghans are starting to handle it themselves.

[Toad]

Originally posted by Raider179
So what if its a do-over. What if it is? What does that mean? People get do-overs all the time. I didn't realize the president had rules that say "I only meet people 1 time, after that, I never have to see you again".

Of course she is grief stricken and like I said, if it helps her get better over the death of her Son to yell at bush for a minute, then he should show some compassion and take it like man. Not hide behind his staff.

The point is she HAD her meeting with Bush. She had her chance to "yell at Bush". She herself has pointed out that her feelings about the war have never changed. She always felt this way.

How many families who lost loved ones haven't had the opportunity to meet with Bush at all? (Nor am I saying that Bush can or should meet with every family. That hasn't happened in any war or police action this country has fought.)

What if she gets this meeting and a year from now is once again unsatisfied? Still seeking closure? Another meeting? Then another? How long will you champion her cause?

This whole thing is blown out of proportion. She has no "right" to any meeting at all. Beyond that, she's HAD a meeting unlike the vast majority of women that have lost loved ones in Iraq.

I believe that the Bushophobics are just hoping she'll get a chance to embarass the President in some way, preferably on camera.

I think that's what you want. I seriously doubt your main interest in this is that Bush help her over her grief.

[Raider179]

Originally posted by Toad


I believe that the Bushophobics are just hoping she'll get a chance to embarass the President in some way, preferably on camera.

I think that's what you want. I seriously doubt your main interest in this is that Bush help her over her grief.

I would be satisfied with a private, no camera's meeting.

[Skydancer]

Urm what wierd world do you people who think Iraq has been a successful intervention live in?

Realy it would be funny if it wasn't such a tragedy of epic poportions.

[Wolf14]

I feel bad that good folks die in battle.

Right now joining the armed services is a voluntary decision.

Those that join voluntarily know that when told to do something they do it with out question wheather or not they agree with it or not.

Those same individuals will know that at any given time they may be called to arms and could very well possibly die.





In my mind anybody who volunteerss for the armed services are more or less signing their death certificate.

I do feel bad for those who have lost loved ones but I cant grasp really why they are so mad at the government when the one they lost voluneered in the first place. Granted the reasons for going to war arent always true or clear but the bottom line to me is that the ones lost knew what they were getting into when they signed.

[Skydancer]

Wolf you do have a point there.

[Toad]

Originally posted by Raider179
I would be satisfied with a private, no camera's meeting.

There's no need to satisfy you at all.

She already HAD her private meeting.

She already stated that her views on the war have not changed because of her son's death.

She just missed her chance to vent the first time apparently and she wants another go at it. And if that one proves insufficient or unfulfilling, she'll want another one.

As I said, it's a media event more than anything else.

[Gunthr]

Bush would be playing the fool to grant that women what she is asking for - (in my mind's eye I visualize the scene in "Jaws" where the grieving mother of a shark-eaten boy approaches Chief Brody in her black veil and slaps his face) - all this bimbo wants to do now is make political drama, and there is no doubt in my mind that she would attempt to rudely embarrass the President.  If he meets with her, he deserves it.

[Holden McGroin]

"Quit saying that U.S. troops died for a noble cause in Iraq, unless you say, 'well, except for Casey Sheehan.' Don't you dare spill any more blood in Casey's name. You do not have permission to use my son's name.

"And the other thing I want him to tell me is 'just what was the noble cause Casey died for?' Was it freedom and democracy? Bullsh--! He died for oil. He died to make your friends richer. He died to expand American imperialism in the Middle East. We're not freer here, thanks to your Patriot Act. Iraq is not free. You get America out of Iraq and Israel out of Palestine and you'll stop the terrorism," she said.

"There, I used the 'I' word ¨C imperialism. And now I'm going to use another 'I' word ¨C impeachment ¨C because we cannot have these people pardoned. They need to be tried on war crimes and go to jail." ---Sheehan

We won't let George Bush and his evil neocon cabal ruin our world anymore. ---Sheehan

I can't believe that someone who is the figurehead of an administration that has killed tens of thousands of innocent people doesn't spend his days hiding under his bed in shame, let alone riding his bike. ---Sheehan

I had a soldier from Ft. Hood come out today and he brought me a small stone with a First Cavalry insignia painted on it and the pictures of three of his beautiful buddies who were murdered there by George's reckless policies. ---Sheehan

If I were George, I wouldn't meet with her either.

[Dnil]

interesting timing on this...dont know if its been posted yet.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0815051sheehan1.html

[Sakai]

Originally posted by Gunthr



Amazing how the right wing retard PR machine is being out done by a single bereaved mother.  Poor babies.

Also amazing that people would stoop to trying to destroy her instead of simply moving on.  The attacks on her are dumbfounding.

Actually, the attacks on her are reprehensible (look it up bucky)sick, irresponsible, and unamerican.

She's in grief, let her complain, that's her right.  

Bush is damned if he does talk to her (well now he is, he had a chance early on, that's gone) and damned if he doesn't.

If he can't explain why her son died then he does have a problem and the 60% of the nation that doesn't have its opinions spoon fed to it by Sean Hannity doesn't believe the president has any credibility anymore because guess what:  he lied about firing Rove, about WMD, about knowing Ken Lay, about what O'Neill and Clarke said, Bush is a known and obvious liar.  

Guys like you are talking-point queens: all RNC lists of talking points, and no original thought or opinion.  How proud you must be to repeate shameful lies and nonsense without bothering to look into the people you mindlessly support.  Too afraid to admit your error?  Geez, shameful.  Please grow some hair down there.  

I recall a time when I was proud to be republican because it was the party that preached accountability.   Bush runs his policies on polls and fear tactics, smear anyone who disagrees with you.  Hide from the public, control the media.  The RNC is an out of control disgrace to the nation and conservatism is shallow, baseless, and irresponsible when it fosters hatred and stupidity like it does now.  

Shame on you for repeating such nonsense.  

The GOP has become the party of screaming down anyone who disagrees, the party of zero accountability, pork barrel politics (outstripping even the democrats for sheer greed) and wholesale selling of their tulips to money to be re-elected.  You guys don't stand for anything but staying inpower, you're out of ideas except "smear anyone who we don't like".  Wow, what a great way to run a democracy ehhh?  You're shameful and unamerican, leave my country, please.  

You so called Nancy boy conservatives should be ashamed of youserelves, berating a grieving american woman.  What brave boys you all are, go get em tigers!  You are making this an issue by getting into the mud.  Anyone who catcalls the mother of a dead soldier is a waste of protein hugahunk in my book.

Grow up, get your own opinion and stop the hatred.

For god's sake, when will the GOP become men again instead of finger pointing, lying little back stabbing whining crybaby rumor mongers?

Sakai