She does not speak for me.

[Nash]

Originally posted by GtoRA2
You are either lying to make a point or just not opening your eyes.

There have been anti war protests here in the Bay area since we invaded Iraq, if not before.

GtoRA2...

Lets imagine that Bush suddenly steps out into the Rose Gar.... I mean the Ranch. And he says "That's it. We're through. We're outa there."

.... that it would have anything to do with a half dozen Berkley kids that nobody is even aware of?

[Hangtime]

Originally posted by Nash
You sound kinda grown uppidy...

The closest these kids know to the 60's is Woodstock 3 with Limp Biscuit et al. Trust me.... there is no tie-dye involved.

And they hate the Doors.

That "machine" isn't there to fire up.

So that dog don't hunt.

And again....

Two weeks of Sheehan has had nothing to do with the failures there.

Yer barking up the wrong tree.

Disagree. Have a college age daughter. We've had this discussion. And she's well aware of where her compatriots heads are at, we talk quite a bit. The danger is VERY real, the closest any of these kids seem to get to 'real' politics is the Daily Show and they just love to champion 'causes' because it's 'kewl'. PETA, Save The Whales, 'No More War'.. hell even the haircuts and fashions from the sixties are back.

Dunno what it's like where you are at, but around here it's lookin mighty '60's' to me.

[Shaky]

Originally posted by Nash
That's the point - there is no hate fest.

Sure their isn't.

[GtoRA2]

Originally posted by Nash
GtoRA2...

Lets imagine that Bush suddenly steps out into the Rose Gar.... I mean the Ranch. And he says "That's it. We're through. We're outa there."

.... that it would have anything to do with a half dozen Berkley kids that nobody is even aware of?

far more then that.


Not as many as they claimed but thousands anyway.

Not all of them  support the troops either, but you talk around that too, you always do.

[FiLtH]

I dont see as much a difference in if he were drafted or not. If drafted you still have a duty to serve your country. If not you, who?  

 Yes it makes it easier to say "Well he knew the risks." As opposed to the guy who was drafted and had no choice.  But when a draft comes, it means we dont have enough of the former type, and those others need to stand up and say "Aye".

[Nash]

Shaky - you can't parlay that into a national hate-fest the likes of the Vietnam era, no more than I can parlay the odd Nazi flag flown by the Minutemen into national racism.

People here weren't talking about freaks. They were talking about the nation's sentiment. You think folks are disgusted by the troops on a level even touching the Vietnam era (which is the comparison they were making)? Yer dead wrong about that.

Hang... I still disagree, yet I find nothing wrong with kids making the decision for themselves, without the need for protecting them from differing points of view.

If they are adult enough to fight and die in this war, they are adult enough to hear both sides. That you would suggest that they should be denied both sides of the argument.... well...  that's not a position I can get behind.

[Hangtime]

Nope.. and that's the problem. The kids ain't getting both sides of the situation. They're getting the news from the Daily Show and their liberal college prof''s and student activists.

"the hot chick is totally into anti-war stuff.. so i'm anti-war".

There's no depth.. no other side of any coin, no experience. Just like it was 35 years ago.

[mosgood]

Originally posted by Yeager
If I were a muslim insurgent (ughh) I would be seriously emboldened by Sheehan and the coverage she is generating in the american press.  I would be so inspired that I would make a double batch of IEDs and try to kill twice as many american soldiers (ironically, just like her son) to increase pressure back home in Sheehans camp to further promote the unconditional withdrawl of the US military from Iraq.

By being down there at the ranch Sheehan is openly and freely practicing freedom and american soldiers will be dying as a result of it defending that very freedom for the forseeable future.  Its sort of ironic, her son died so she could practice her freedom of speech and inspire more killing of young american soldiers.

Just an observation.

I think that the argumnet that this women should keep her mouth shut about what she thinks and feels because it's gonna get others killed isn't really looking at the big picture.  

It's not her that is creating this problem.  She's just a mom of a dead son/soldier and I have no idea where the depths of her pain end and if she wants to use her one voice to scream, curse or whatever at who she feels is to blame.  She has that right.  Because it's one voice and her voice on its own cant be heard from Iraq.  

If you guys want to lay blame on anyones feet about this turning into a rally cry for insurgents to escellate, lay it at the feet of the media that is using this one womans suffering and one voice to accomplish their own political and financial agendas.  It's the medias voice that is amplifying her voice all the way to Iraq.  To me, that's the overall problem.

[Nash]

There's no depth.. no other side of any coin, no experience. Just like it was 35 years ago. - Hang

Not much of a suprise, though, is it?

It's not a hippy thing nor a generational thing nor even a thing to be woken up and exploited like a "machine."

It just is. And I'm pretty sure that's how it always will be.

But given that, there has been plenty and I mean plenty of pro-war propoganda floating around these last few years. It's only in the last two weeks that's there's even been some semblence of anti-war propoganda.

You wanna shut it down? You wanna make State Sanctioned Opinion the only and entire acceptable thing for the would-be soldiers, hence the entire country, to hear?

Because that's what yer asking for.

[Hangtime]

If you guys want to lay blame on anyones feet about this turning into a rally cry for insurgents to escellate, lay it at the feet of the media that is using this one womans suffering and one voice to accomplish their own political and financial agendas. It's the medias voice that is amplifying her voice all the way to Iraq. To me, that's the overall problem.

True. Very True.

Unfortunately, the woman obviously knows how to play this game.

And for that, she shares with the media the onus of instigator for the enemy.

[Nash]

Very true? A "rally cry for insurgents to escellate....?"

Try and let this sink in:

THEY HAVE ALREADY ESCALATED THIS.

They didn't need Sheehan's help. They weren't waiting for her, and they - like the rest of us - had no idea who Sheehan was when THEY WENT ABOUT ESCALATING THIS LONG BEFORE SHEEHAN EVEN SHOWED UP.

[Hangtime]

Originally posted by Nash
Not much of a suprise, though, is it?

It's not a hippy thing nor a generational thing nor even a thing to be woken up and exploited like a "machine."

It just is. And I'm pretty sure that's how it always will be.

But given that, there has been plenty and I mean plenty of pro-war propoganda floating around these last few years. It's only in the last two weeks that's there's even been some semblence of anti-war propoganda.

You wanna shut it down? You wanna make State Sanctioned Opinion the only and entire acceptable thing for the would-be soldiers, hence the entire country, to hear?

Because that's what yer asking for.

No it ain't Nash. I want the Mom's that support their sons on the line in Iraq to get equal time. I want the Mom's like Natilie Healy doing the talking head thing on Hardball. Why was she yanked at the last minute??

I want the media to explore BOTH side of the issue, VIGOROUSLY.

[Nash]

Me too Hang.

It's been far too one sided.

Equal time.

I'm down with that.

[mosgood]

Originally posted by Hangtime
No it ain't Nash. I want the Mom's that support their sons on the line in Iraq to get equal time. I want the Mom's like Natilie Healy doing the talking head thing on Hardball. Why was she yanked at the last minute??

I want the media to explore BOTH side of the issue, VIGOROUSLY.

Well I think because, if they did get equal time more americans might start feeling like they should support the troops and finishing the mission.

[Nash]

Funny how a mere two weeks becomes lopsided.

You guys have had three years.