Author Topic: raider179 was right...  (Read 7975 times)

Offline beet1e

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raider179 was right...
« Reply #345 on: September 26, 2005, 04:04:43 AM »
Oh and LOL HangTime and HMcG! :lol

For obvious reasons, I'm not going to QUOTE your posts! ;)

Offline straffo

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raider179 was right...
« Reply #346 on: September 26, 2005, 04:31:28 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime
france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france france

(you were about 8 short of a drubbing)



uh ???

Offline lazs2

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raider179 was right...
« Reply #347 on: September 26, 2005, 08:30:57 AM »
beetle... I am not surprised that you don't get it... If my not wearing a seatbelt killed 2000 or even two a year then it would be a good law.... if 20,000 individuduals die a year because they chose to not wear a seatbelt then that is/was their right... just like it is their right to fly or eat fatty foods or drink or ride motorcycles..

six... you believe that democracy is what we have.... 4 wolves and a sheep all voting on what's for dinner.

nash... you berate us for quoting our founders... the men who wrote our constitution... the document we live by.... you say that they are old fashioned... that they are not men like us.... not so...evolved?    Freedom is different now?

Please... who should we listen to?  who are these great modern thinkers that have views that would be more modern than the founders?   Jon stewart?   kerrie?   who?   maybe some canadian... surely some "artists" that is hip enough for you can explain freedom better than a bunch of dead guys?   Give us some names of these hip new guys and their views of freedom...

The reason you don't see people saying... "Freedom is good so long as it doesn't cost anyone any money or offend anyone" is because they would get lynched....

Everyone at least plays lip service to the old dead guys... they just try to get out of doing what is right if it inconviences them... they.... like you want the easy and selfish way out..

and... I think everyone explained insurance to you but... the insurance company charges on what it thinks the burden will be... for instance... I would have been paying a higher rate for 50 years but not have cost them anything.... others would...in maybe 1 in 10,000 wrecks have cost more than the premium in extra injuries because they didn't wear seatbelts....  they actually keep track of these numbers and adjust rates.

lazs

Offline lazs2

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raider179 was right...
« Reply #348 on: September 26, 2005, 08:53:51 AM »
I think more to the point is gun control laws...

Guns in the hands of criminals cause death and destruction.... You could have a total police state that would make it unlikely that criminals would have guns because they would be banned and the penalties could be say... death... for even owning one.... in england.... they let burglars go and rapists and muggers but a guy caught owning a gun is going to prison...

Our constitution gives us the right to defend ourselves with firearms... This is not a privilidge... it is stated as a ritght... it may be inconvient and at times expensive.... people are killed by guns.

it is a right that needs to be protected tho... simply so little busybodies like sixpense and the insurance companies can't pass laws taking away the freedom.

That is the real cowardice.... I bow to the big laws that are unconstitutional as quickly as I do the small like seatbelts and helmets and wearing a life jacket to swim (yep... that's a law now in parts of kalifornia)..

We have "artists" from canada telling us that freedom is not important if they don't care about it...   The things Nash likes I think suck.... If they put up a law to outlaw em tho...I would be outraged just as much.... What we get and he doesn't is..

When you wish to restrict others rights you only open the door for the bigger government you have created to come after you next..

And subaru.... I have no problem with passing laws against some abortions and the rights of individuals.... I do not believe that a mother has the right to kill anyone no matter how inconvient their life may be to her.

lazs

Offline Sixpence

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raider179 was right...
« Reply #349 on: September 26, 2005, 10:35:28 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
Our constitution gives us the right to defend ourselves with firearms... This is not a privilidge... it is stated as a ritght... it may be inconvient and at times expensive.... people are killed by guns.


You are making the wrong comparison, no one is trying to take your car away.

Ok, you can carry a concealed handgun in a shopping mall, however, you cannot carry a shotgun in a shopping mall. Now is this taking away your freedom of choice? Well, I guess you could say that, but most in the town agree with this. Is it taking away your right to bear arms and defend yourself? We in the town don't think so, that 357 you have under your shirt should work just fine.

Now let's bring that comparison even closer. Let's say you can carry a shot in a shopping mall, however, you are required to have the safety on. Now, is this taking away your freedom of choice to use a safety or not? I guess you could say that, but most in the town agree with it.

What really gets me Lazs is that if most of these guys crying revolution over a seat belt had a guy move in next door, and this guy started filling his front yard with junk cars, bath tubs and all kind of crap, they would be the first ones to call city hall to make him clean up his yard. So much for personal freedom huh?

Now I say most because you would probably ask the guy if you could use his yard for target practice. You both would become the best of friends sitting on his front porch shooting up old cars and toilets.

Freakin hillbilly
"My grandaddy always told me, "There are three things that'll put a good man down: Losin' a good woman, eatin' bad possum, or eatin' good possum."" - Holden McGroin

(and I still say he wasn't trying to spell possum!)

Offline beet1e

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raider179 was right...
« Reply #350 on: September 26, 2005, 11:03:32 AM »
Lazs -

it's not that I disagree with you about the long arm of government or the nannying thing. I've told you where I stand with regard to the 70mph speed limit here. And I certainly would not want my consumption of red wine to be limited to one glass per day!

But I think that being asked to wear a seatbelt is a small price to pay to see deaths on the roads cut by 40%.

But I know you will want to counter that, and I always like to keep an open mind and see the other side's point of view.

Personally, I think some of you guys have got a bug up your collective arse about this freedom thing. You're obsessed with it. And the seatbelt law in the UK is not the result of "bigger government". The law was instigated by a charity organisation campaigning for greater safety on the roads.

Rather than assume that my point of view was "correct", I decided to run my own poll on a British road safety and general motoring BBS of which I am a member. It's only been up for a few hours, and I'm running it for 7 days. I'll post the final results next week.

Here are the results so far. I've airbrushed out the forum name.


Offline Hangtime

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raider179 was right...
« Reply #351 on: September 26, 2005, 11:25:40 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sixpence

What really gets me Lazs is that if most of these guys crying revolution over a seat belt had a guy move in next door, and this guy started filling his front yard with junk cars, bath tubs and all kind of crap, they would be the first ones to call city hall to make him clean up his yard. So much for personal freedom huh?

Now I say most because you would probably ask the guy if you could use his yard for target practice. You both would become the best of friends sitting on his front porch shooting up old cars and toilets.

Freakin hillbilly


Ahh.. name calling.. (blah blah blah)  "thanks for playing".

Six, Why call city hall? Sorry, I don't pick up the phone and call the cops when I see something I don't like go down in the neighborhood. If my next door neighbor tried to turn his yard into an offensive eyesore I'd go bang on his door and explain in no uncertain terms what the problem was and give him a few unsavory choices.

Only a citified grapefruit would hide behind a cop to handle something as simple as "yo.. clean this mess up or I'll re-arrange the geography of yer ass."
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Sixpence

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raider179 was right...
« Reply #352 on: September 26, 2005, 11:44:02 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime
Ahh.. name calling.. (blah blah blah)  "thanks for playing".

Six, Why call city hall? Sorry, I don't pick up the phone and call the cops when I see something I don't like go down in the neighborhood. If my next door neighbor tried to turn his yard into an offensive eyesore I'd go bang on his door and explain in no uncertain terms what the problem was and give him a few unsavory choices.

Only a citified grapefruit would hide behind a cop to handle something as simple as "yo.. clean this mess up or I'll re-arrange the geography of yer ass."


Ahh, take away his freedom of choice with force, gotcha
"My grandaddy always told me, "There are three things that'll put a good man down: Losin' a good woman, eatin' bad possum, or eatin' good possum."" - Holden McGroin

(and I still say he wasn't trying to spell possum!)

Offline Hangtime

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raider179 was right...
« Reply #353 on: September 26, 2005, 11:49:19 AM »
Hey.. he's free to call a cop, leave, physcially defend his right to deface his property, or clean the mess up.

:D
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Torque

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raider179 was right...
« Reply #354 on: September 26, 2005, 11:56:58 AM »
"Under the law of nature, all men are born free, every one comes into the world with a right to his own person, which includes the liberty of moving and using it at his own will. This is what is called personal liberty, and is given him by the Author of nature, because necessary for his own sustenance."

--Thomas Jefferson

of course he kept his slaves tho.

Offline beet1e

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« Reply #355 on: September 26, 2005, 11:59:16 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Torque
of course he kept his slaves tho.
:lol

Offline Hangtime

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raider179 was right...
« Reply #356 on: September 26, 2005, 12:03:09 PM »
Sally Hemmings sez he loved 'em too.

:aok
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Jackal1

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raider179 was right...
« Reply #357 on: September 26, 2005, 12:50:56 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e
I'll post the final results next week.


Don`t bother. It doesn`t pertain here.
You might try a British BBS where they are discussing British law.
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline Toad

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raider179 was right...
« Reply #358 on: September 26, 2005, 01:27:27 PM »
Flawed Founders

Quote
Of all the contradictions in Jefferson’s contradictory life, none is greater. Of all the contradictions in America’s history, none surpasses its toleration first of slavery and then of segregation. Jefferson hoped and expected that Virginians of Meriwether Lewis’ and William Clark’s generation would abolish slavery. His writing showed that he had a great mind and a limited character.

Jefferson, like all slaveholders and many other white members of American society, regarded Negroes as inferior, childlike, untrustworthy and, of course, as property. Jefferson, the genius of politics, could see no way for African-Americans to live in society as free people. He embraced the worst forms of racism to justify slavery.

In Notes on the State of Virginia, Jefferson describes the institution of slavery as forcing tyranny and depravity on master and slave alike. To be a slaveholder meant one had to believe that the worst white man was better than the best black man. If you did not believe these things, you could not justify yourself to yourself. So Jefferson could condemn slavery in words, but not in deeds.


No one said he was perfect. None the less, he was an amazing man with an incredible intellect as well as a walking contradiction.

Ambrose put it prety well:

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"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal." Those words, as the historian Samuel Eliot Morison has said, "are more revolutionary than anything written by Robespierre, Marx, or Lenin, a continual challenge to ourselves, as well as an inspiration to the oppressed of all the world."
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Toad

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raider179 was right...
« Reply #359 on: September 26, 2005, 01:32:42 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e
:lol


TJ died July 4, 1826.

It wasn't until 1833 that slavery (as opposed to just the business of the slave trade) was abolished within the British Empire (though not within British protectorates, such as Sierra Leone).

Quote
The British government paid compensation to the slave owners. The amount that the plantation owners received depended on the number of slaves that they had. For example, the Bishop of Exeter's 665 slaves resulted in him receiving £12,700.

HERE

Fancy that; the Bishop of Exeter.... I guess most of them were men of their times.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!