raider179 was right...

[beet1e]

Originally posted by lazs2
yep... beetle proves my point... the point of the thread...  laws and punishment have made cowards of us... at the mercy of the sheep...    If you don't understand these quotes or agree with em then you are not deserving to be an American... I would as soon you leave.

ROFL! OK, I have to admit - I am not deserving to be an American.

I wonder how many of your "state legislatures" are actually listening, or reading this thread. With 49/50 states having enacted a seatbelt law, my guess is... not too many!

[lazs2]

so beet... which is it?  you don't understand the quotes or you simply don't agree with em?

I think your answer will be very enlightening to the Americans here who think that maybe the brits are on the right track.

government is a disease masquerading as it's own cure.

lazs

[Toad]

Apparently he thinks there's some sort of validation of the concept because the Federal Government coerced the States into passing the laws.

That's pretty revealing.

Apparently, if you can bring enough force to bear... your ideas are valid and justitfied.

Some folks like to kneel before the throne, I guess.

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by Sixpence
Well, what about other reasons? For that matter, what does the reason matter if that town wants the law?

I bow to your debating skills.  You have convinced me. You are right.  Government should pass unreasonable laws.

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by beet1e
I don't understand the way of thinking that a new law is necessarily a bad thing.  

  I would never have guessed.

After all, if there were no laws, we would have... lawlessness.

  One could only dream. The strong would survive , the weak, that wasn`t protected by the strong, would perish. Ya know...sort of the way law is suppose to work here.
  It`s not the lack of law that is the problem here. It is too many laws regarding manzy panzy issues to the point of stomping on people`s freedom and rights.
  Seems like much bigger problems that should be getting the attention it deserves from law makers and enforcers is being pushed to the back burner in order to step on the average, every day Joe. That`s the problem. New is not always good or better. In a lots of cases, such as what is being discussed here, new is a GIANT step in the wrong direction.

[Sixpence]

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
I bow to your debating skills.  You have convinced me. You are right.

Thnx buddy, I knew you would come around

 

[Sixpence]

Originally posted by lazs2
think about it... if you had to pay for all your meddling you might not be so quick to meddle in other peoples business.

lazs

If that's the price I have to pay to keep nudists out of the parks, I'll pay it. But where we can govern ourselves we don't have have to

[Holden McGroin]

Nice edit.

[Sixpence]

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Nice edit.

lol, I knew it would bring you back:)

[Nash]

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
You almost have it...  These men paid for our freedom with lives.   And now we sell what they passed to us for a few dollars.  Even is we are talking of the freedom of choice of whether or not to wear a seat belts or not, (and I know it is just a small piece of freedom) we are still selling at least a portion of their sacrifice.

WWII was fought for the right to not wear seat belts, even in part? I think you belittle their sacrifices by twisting it to serve such a trivial notion. As easy as saying:

"I want to run down Main Street naked, twisting my nipples... because WWII was fought for such freedoms, and the denial of such a right is a selling out of their sacrifice." What would be the difference?

So, while that sounds all noble and patriotic and whatever, it doesn't amount to much. Go ahead and try to pervert the vet's sacrifice so that all it really ever amounted to was just some fight to protect everyone's right to be an idiot. It just doesn't wash with me.

And believe me, I've taken my share of liberties with the law. I'm no saint and never will be. But one thing I have always understood, fundamentally, is that in this world I am free to do just whatever the hell I want. But that's only so long as my wants don't infringe on other people's doing whatever they want. And visa versa and back again.

So here we are. You want to be free to drive without a seatbelt. And I want to be free of paying for your CAT scan. You want to be free to drive your gas guzzling polluting wreck/monster of a vehicle, and I want to be free of paying at the pump and sucking in your pollution. Because Christ, maybe I'd rather use that money to take a vacation instead. Know what I mean?

Tell me the vets didn't sacrifice for THOSE rights. And that they only had yours in mind. You can't.

"Nanny"..... What a bunch of baloney. It's pure self centeredness talkin'.

But sleep well knowing that you'll be long gone cold dead, while your "nanny" cries evaporate into small embarrassed echoes of a time that spawned a dizzied generation that put their selfish wants and child-like impulses well above everyone else's; using the sacrifices of great men in the past as justification, and giving no thought to the generations that follow who they will never meet but will nonetheless wind up paying for it.

Whoohoo! Freedom! I'm gettin' my cake, I'm gonna eat it. This is my gawdamned right, so damn the torpedoes and piss off.

It is nothing less than a cruel joke that we must endure at your mercy.

[beet1e]

Excellent post, Nash.

[Lazerus]

Originally posted by Sixpence
I think you are right, the town and states right to govern themselves being taken away sucks

I agree. How do you feel about the right to privacy clause?

Before you answer, you might want to research the extent that this clause has been used to enact federal laws.

At what point do local statutes violate constitutional rights?

[Toad]

Mr. Twister.

Heh.

You can choose to honor the sacrifices of great men in the past by following their precepts.

By giving thought to the generations that follow in those long ago footsteps. By living they way they intended us to live.

There's no mystery... except to those who would twist the simple words and clear meanings of the men who sacrificed to form this country and to keep the dream alive down through the past 2+ centuries.

Jefferson spelled it out. Washington warned of the dangers. Heck, they ALL did.

But those who seek to tell others how to live their lives never rest, do they?

TJ:

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."

"A free people [claim] their rights as derived from the laws of nature, and not as the gift of their chief magistrate."


"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms [of government] those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny."


"I am not a friend to a very energetic government. It is always oppressive."


"Most bad government has grown out of too much government."


"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have ... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

GW:

"The marvel of all history is the patience with which men and women submit to burdens unnecessarily laid upon them by their governments."

There can't be any doubt about the Founding Father's view of the overarching Federal power that has been allowed to grow beyond any of their wildest nightmares.

It's clear which faction here dishonors and disregards the sacrifices made by the generations from 1776 thru WW2.

But it's typical of the sleight of hand used. And common. "Hey Rube, you don't see what you think you see. Let me explain it to you my way."

[Nash]

Originally posted by Toad
You can choose to honor the sacrifices of great men in the past by following their precepts.

By giving thought to the generations that follow in those long ago footsteps. By living they way they

Your stuff is becoming alarmingly less worthy of a detailed response. What is happening with you?

I'll only answer by saying this:

Despite how you cull (abuse) their words as justification for your recklessness, I am confident that they, if sufficiently conjured, would amass, form a semi-circle around you, and collectively puke on your feet.

[Hangtime]

Nash, I want to be free of nitwit laws. I'd like to be free of nitwits period, but that's not likely so I'll insist on the former.

Now, without waxing philosophical about the sacrifices of my forbearers, without calling into question the basic principles of personal freedom and the principal points of the Declaration Of Independence, the Constitution or the Bill of Rights; allow me to point out that I.. that is ME, have sacrificed at the altar of freedom more than enough to gain the privilege of demanding my rights as a citizen of this nation and have earned the right to make this simple statement...

The Nanny State, and it's nitwit nitpicking laws is an affront to me, I do not take lightly infringement of my personal liberties, and my decisions regarding my personal safety and the management of my personal life, my privacy and my security are MY OWN, reserved by me, earned by me, paid for by yours truly. As an American Citizen, Taxpayer and War Veteran I do not think that pointing out the erosion of personal liberties by little nips and tucks is something that should be either marginalized or obfuscated.. instead the full light of day should be focused on these cancerous growths on the body of this nation.  

YOU, sir; may take yer bogus nitwit ass-hat 'cost- benefit analysis' of the legitimacy for such intrusions on my privacy, fold it up till it's all sharp pointy corners and pack it where the sun don't shine.