Unperk the Ta 152 !

[lasersailor184]

No, as you get further into the war, you start developing good planes.  

Thus as logic leads you through, you figure out that the planes that are rare are the best planes out there.  Because development always works forward.

Had the war gone on another year, the planes that were rare are not rare anymore.  Now you have a set of BETTER planes that are now rare because development didn't have a chance to finish.



The real question is that if we knew nothing about how many planes were built, would the same planes be perked?


The answer is yes.  Thus it proves that perk cost is based off of power and usage only, not rarity.

[Krusty]

Originally posted by lasersailor184
No, as you get further into the war, you start developing good planes.  

Thus as logic leads you through, you figure out that the planes that are rare are the best planes out there.  Because development always works forward.

Had the war gone on another year, the planes that were rare are not rare anymore.  Now you have a set of BETTER planes that are now rare because development didn't have a chance to finish.



The real question is that if we knew nothing about how many planes were built, would the same planes be perked?


The answer is yes.  Thus it proves that perk cost is based off of power and usage only, not rarity.

Dude, whoa, whoa, whoa!

You're talking gibberish here... Think about what you just said. That doesn't make ANY sense. Nor is it grounded in what we're talking about. Ta152 by ANY sense of the word is a rare plane. So is the F4u4. They barely made it into the war, period. So is the 163, the 109G2 was a very short run plane, the n1k2 saw limited service, as did several others in AH (I gues less so with the n1k2....). Okay? With me so far? Note how some of the ones I listed as "semi-rare" are perked?

Okay, now, consider, in AH most of the uber late war super-powered MONSTERS are unperked.

That shoots lots of holes in your "Perks are performance related ONLY" theory. Otherwise dora, G10, p51D, yak9u, la7, la5, typhoon, b24, spit9, and half the planeset would be perked.

You're wrong on this one

HTC can perk a plane either for historical scarcity or for performance -- it's their call. They have done BOTH in the past. I don't see what the debate is!

[straffo]

As far as I remember the only output by HT was something like : "perk are perked to be hunted"

[Krusty]

Only.. that doesn't work with the new icon system, does it?

[Wilbus]

Originally posted by Morpheus
Even still, its like paying for a bag of rocks which came out of your back yard.

Well put.

The thing is this discussion has gone on for as long as the Ta152 has been here. I doubt there will be any changes to it.

I too flew the Ta 152 far more in AH then I do in AH2.

It's the most unstable plane in AH2 IMO. The long wings are part of the reason, what bothers me is that i can't seem to counter this with a good use of rudders in AH, not sure why but it's near impossible to fly the plane "clean" even with the use of rudders. Of course, this is not the planes biggest problem, the biggest problem is just that it sucks.

Nomak, no FM changes were made to any planes in the transition to AH2.
What was changed was the overall FM for the intire game. AFAIK HTC added more points to be calculated (along the wings only or over the intire plane I don't know). This affects all planes, specially near the stall. Few planes have suffered from it though, most of them have improved in performance. The Ta 152 is one of the few (the only?) that has suffered from it, and greatly so.

I've pretty much given up on the discussion and I don't fly it anymore.

[Krusty]

A lot of planes have suffered from it wilbus!

The zero got a super boost in E retention. Now in a co alt (on the deck) fight it can chase down a p40E screaming away at WEP and catch it after a couple of minutes (total BS).

The Hurricane got a super speed retention/climb boost. It can zoom, hang, follow, and chase anybody anywhere, with a good chance of staying within killing range for a long time. Never could do that in AH1.

The 110 got this wierd spitfire flight model. Where historically (and in AH1) it was a dog to fly, not it out turns and out loops spit1s and hurr1s. It totally ruins the BOB scenario in AH2.

The spitV has total BS low speed handling (I'll use my oft-cited "steady aim until 48mph then is at 180mph 1.5 seconds after stalling out in a 48mph stall").

There are plenty of planes that suffered in the change from AH1 to AH2. They just didn't suffer the same way the 152 did. For whatever reason, what made most planes unrealistically BETTER, made the ta152 unrealistically WORSE.

That's been my observation.

[lasersailor184]

The 110 still has the same flight model.  It just takes skill to learn it well.


I still often throw it into unrecoverable spins.

[Krusty]

Laser, in AH1 it flew totally different. It wasn't this agile light zeke of a plane. Only since AH2 has it become a light knife fighter. It's unrealistic, and unhistorical.

I'm glad that certain planes in AH1 that were totally porked (190s and 109s, to name 2) got "fixed" in ah2, but the rest of them just got waaaay over modeled. It's one of my pet peeves with AH2's coding. It's an across-the-board issue. I don't even know what the issue is (can't pinpoint it) but everything is "off".

EDIT: I got into one of those unrecoverable spins in a spit9 recently. No reason I should have. Was only making a loop! Never even stalled til the last second! There are still many bugs with AH.

[Wilbus]

Originally posted by Krusty
A lot of planes have suffered from it wilbus!

The zero got a super boost in E retention. Now in a co alt (on the deck) fight it can chase down a p40E screaming away at WEP and catch it after a couple of minutes (total BS).

The Hurricane got a super speed retention/climb boost. It can zoom, hang, follow, and chase anybody anywhere, with a good chance of staying within killing range for a long time. Never could do that in AH1.

The 110 got this wierd spitfire flight model. Where historically (and in AH1) it was a dog to fly, not it out turns and out loops spit1s and hurr1s. It totally ruins the BOB scenario in AH2.

The spitV has total BS low speed handling (I'll use my oft-cited "steady aim until 48mph then is at 180mph 1.5 seconds after stalling out in a 48mph stall").

There are plenty of planes that suffered in the change from AH1 to AH2. They just didn't suffer the same way the 152 did. For whatever reason, what made most planes unrealistically BETTER, made the ta152 unrealistically WORSE.

That's been my observation.

Those planes didn't suffer from it Krusty, they gained from it.

You said it yourself, they all fly far better. The 110 is a good example. Although it was more then capable in AH it is actually very very good in AH2 (far better then in AH).

The 152 is the plane that suffered most from it. The 262 suffered some aswell but it is IMO more realistic now.

[Kweassa]

Tas outturning Tempies??

 Not a chance.

* Tempest Mk.V: 18 seconds @ 168mph, 215.2m radius
* Ta152H-1: 20 seconds @ 261.9m radius

 ... at least, not in AH.

 Tempy to Ta in turns, is about similar to an A6M2 to Spit9.

[Larry]

AHs Ta152 is all screwed up. I still dont understand why they didnt remodel it with the 190s.

[storch]

All of the 190s all suffer from fatal modelling errors that give away all the advantages they had to the allied rides.  these flaws cannot be corrected without re doing the entire coding for them.  pyro has already stated this.  they will not be remodelled until other priorities are first addressed.  in the mean time we who prefer LW rides will soldier on in these less than realistically modelled rides all the while improving our skills.  the question is what will you easy moders do when the 190s are corrected?

[straffo]

What flaw are you speaking about ?

[storch]

incorrect climb rate and speed, the 115 litre auxiliary tank which is always full even when it runs dry, others I don't recall.  they don't matter too much to me now that pyro is aware of them, has acknowledeged and will correct them when he has the time.  I recently purchased a copy of Flight Journal's Special Issue, German Fighters war planes of the Third Reich.  Beginning on page 68 there is a test pilot's report written by the late Rear Admiral C.C. "Andy" Andrews USN (Ret.) Titled Butcher Bird vs. Hellcat and Corsair.  Many here are aware that the F8F Bearcat design was heavily influenced by the results of these flight tests.  It may be a good idea to pick up a copy.  I was amazed to see all the vices of the FW190 design accurately incorporated in the AH modelling while excluding many of it's salient features.

[Krusty]

Originally posted by Wilbus
Those planes didn't suffer from it Krusty, they gained from it.

You said it yourself, they all fly far better. The 110 is a good example. Although it was more then capable in AH it is actually very very good in AH2 (far better then in AH).

The 152 is the plane that suffered most from it. The 262 suffered some aswell but it is IMO more realistic now.

That's my point. They "suffer" from the problem. They are too good. They should NOT be that good. But they are, thus they suffer from that same problem. Just because it makes them "better" doesn't mean it made them "right"