Lazs, I agree with about everything you said but the ad copy/complaint bit. BTW, I did spend $20 for a headspace gauge myself, though there are those who don’t worry about that.
he probly will find that half the stocks he attempts to restore are unrestorable and oil soaked.... if his labor is only worth a few bucks an hour he will end up with a rifle that only cost a little more than a boxed mithchell with accessories.
Maybe so. But then I don’t get the impression the guy is all that interested in owning a Yugo M-48 at the same price. And for others who also want a “real” K98k, Mitchell’s is not an option.
charon... I think all the outrage is just..... shrill.
The ad copy is pretty clear in its attempt to imply K98K - why, because people are interested more in K98ks than they are in Yugo M48s (and the FN M24s the M48 action is actually based on). Here’s the recent lead in ad for the M48s at Mitchell’s.
A “NEW” Mauser, and it’s over 50 years old! A genuine Mauser 98K (1), the Model M48 is the Strongest and Best of the original bolt-action Rifles. Made on German Tooling (2) set up in formerly occupied Serbia. Military-New condition with clean, Bright Bores, and Teakwood stocks, with an American Owner’s Manual covering history, operation, and safety. “Military-New” means it is ready for you; cleaned and tested to assure safety and your satisfaction. Maintained Combat-Ready (and it still is) for over 50 years, now it can be yours. Original Factory matching serial numbers on all rifle parts. Preserved by an accident of history (3), supply is limited. All original accessories as issued at the time and shown here are included. This Mauser is ideal for collecting, target shooting, hunting, or customizing.
1. No, it is considered an entirely different action. More accurate would be: “A genuine FN M24 action.” That is also more rational since it is virtually identical to the M24 made for/in Yugoslavia pre war (with interchangeable parts unlike the K98k) with the same dimensions, special features and improvements that were incorporated in the M48. A point that is only important for marketing, not quality or function. By putting 98K in there it implies a 98K knockoff - when it is a distinctly different M24 knockoff. But, K98k sells a lot better to the History Channel crowd. And not to be confused with the Czech VZ24 that is a K98k action.
2. Not necessarily. Apparently the machinery was all FN supplied in the 1920s, and most of that came from varied sources, such as WW I German reparations etc, but also from elsewhere (Belgium, Switzerland, USA, England etc) -- so yes, and no.
3. Removed from the recent copy was a previous statement: “… as they were intended to be issued in WWII.” In a future WW3 would be more appropriate, since production started in 1950 after approval in 1948. Again, this is not a new issue or a single mistake or a few disgruntled grouches.
To be fair, they have added this disclaimer below it:
Some people may be getting the mistaken impression that these rifles were manufactured by Germans during the occupation. That is not the case. These rifles were manufactured with German technology in Serbia after the people had driven the Germans out of Yugoslavia.
This is an important distinction, because that is one of the reasons why the Model 48 is recognized as a superior example of the K98 type military rifle. The factory in Serbia was not bombed, like the German factories during the war. The factory in Serbia had a good supply of raw materials. And the Model 48 was produced by free people, instead of forced labor. All of which resulted in a superior rifle in its own right, as well as an interesting piece of history.
And it’s not just bitter RC K98k owners or “competitors” (only one I listed would even remotely have a business bias) but people who have bought and buy M48s themselves. Here’s a nice M48 WG&A was selling for $150 that the new owner spent 2 hours cleaning up and adding a coat of tongue oil.
http://www.warrifles.com/forums/printthread.php?t=13846&pp=20Here are his views on Mitchell’s. They about sum up the views of many have expressed on the subject (who haven’t already dropped $300 on one
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As I stated in my previous post, my M48 was a 100% unissued rifle... once I got all of the cosmoline off the stock and metal parts and applied a few fresh coats of tung oil (a couple of hours' work), the rifle looked like it was made yesterday. "Unissued" generally means "unissued." Everything looks brand new -- mirror bright bore, tight action, perfect headspace, yadda, yadda, yadda. I don't doubt that the Mitchell's rifles are any different than mine -- theirs were made in Yugoslavia... mine was made in Yugoslavia. As I said before, the part that gets me is the outrageous price. But some folks don't care how much they spend, and that's definitely their prerogative.
My dislike with Mitchell's is purely a matter of principle. They're selling the same milsurp rifles that are available everywhere else, except they're charging 2x-3x more since they cleaned them up. And they do tend to bend the facts in their advertising (i.e. a Yugo M48 is not a Mauser K98). But I'm sure the products are the same quality as what I have in my collection.
There's a reason why experienced collectors avoid Mitchell's... and it's not because experienced collectors aren't interested in mint condition (or awfully close to it) milsurps. Experienced collectors know what Mitchell's has, they know what other dealers have, and they know the market value of those items. Mitchell's doesn't fair very well with experienced collectors for that reason and for their questionable advertising.
But, again, America is still a (mostly) free country, so folks are free to buy their milsurps wherever they want. You'll get no argument out of me on that one.
And this guy in the same thread.
I agree with you Greg. I bought an M48 at a gun show that looks like it was made yesterday for $150.00. It's perfect in every way 100% rfinish not one stock ding, perfect bore and headspace. What I found more shocking was the price on their Lugers and P 38s. The Lugers have obviously been re-finished, thereby really ruining the value. I've been collecting P08s and P 38s for 40 years. I know what I'm talking about.
Mitchell’s is still a great deal at $300 compared to a Remchester, a better deal at $150 but no deal at all for anyone that wants an actual K98k. Intentional or not (and I believe it is clearly intentional) the MM ad copy does confuse people, including some in this thread. It was not made in 1943 or 1945, it is not an interchangable K98k action (M24) it was not a WW2 gun in any form, it may not even be fully produced (or even mostly produced) on German machining. Small points, unless those are important to the individual, and generally bad form ethically.
Charon
