Author Topic: Cal Prop 75 Is A Lie  (Read 1666 times)

Offline FUNKED1

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Cal Prop 75 Is A Lie
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2005, 09:25:33 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
And they simply say the same thing about your position Funky.  Seriously the partys in favor of and against these props says the exact same thing about their opponents.


Except my position is demonstrably true.  Do you want a copy of my CTA membership form showing the boxes I checked to deny them use of my dues for NEA or political campaigns?

Offline FUNKED1

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Cal Prop 75 Is A Lie
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2005, 09:27:43 PM »
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Funky, Funky the teachers union members got to you - perfectly undersatandable tho....  ;)


That's a silly thing to say.  The reason I'm informed on this issue is specifically because I disagree with the CTA and NEA politics and have exercised my right to control what my dues go for.

Offline FUNKED1

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Cal Prop 75 Is A Lie
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2005, 09:30:06 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Seraphim
What's really funny to me is how the people who are against these new props are the people who complain the most about how corrupt or govt/state are. They always remind me of spoiled children who hate their parents because they didn't buy them a candy bar.


What's really funny to me is how people who don't know anything about an issue will make nonsensical comments.  They remind me of children who sniffed too much glue.

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Cal Prop 75 Is A Lie
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2005, 09:30:44 PM »
Here is the key, difference I think..

From  an LA Times article - traditional mouthpiece of the anti labor right of course ..

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-labor10oct10,1,6529410.story?coll=la-headlines-california

(Current law does allow union members to block the use of their dues for political campaigns; the measure would require unions to ask approval in advance.)

Full article, also makes great reading to see split between union leaders (all political hacks of democratic party) and individual union members...

Prop. 75 Worries Union Leaders
# Many in the rank and file could support the measure, which would limit use of members' dues. Opponents have been slow to rally.

By Michael Finnegan, Times Staff Writer

With thousands of Californians already voting by mail, leaders of organized labor are increasingly anxious about the strength of their push to mobilize union members against Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger's November ballot measures.

Their chief worries are that many won't vote and that many of those who do will support Proposition 75, a measure fiercely opposed by labor leaders yet alluring to many in the rank and file.

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The measure, backed by Schwarzenegger, would bar government employee unions from spending members' dues on political campaigns without prior consent. Labor leaders fear it would sharply diminish their ability to make campaign donations, tilting the balance of political power in California toward business interests.

"We're not winning on this thing, and we've got to step it up," Steven Neal, a Los Angeles County Federation of Labor official, told scores of union leaders at a campaign breakfast last week in downtown Los Angeles. He likened the battle against Proposition 75 to a "sinking ship" in need of rescue.

The gathering, called by the labor federation, was designed to arouse a sense of urgency among union political operatives in fighting Schwarzenegger's agenda in the Nov. 8 election.

But the event also showcased the nervousness among union leaders, who fear that the Republican governor could pull off a victory with Proposition 75. Polls have found most voters support the measure, one of four Schwarzenegger is campaigning to get passed.

Passage of Proposition 75 would be a major setback to the nation's fractured labor movement. Unions representing more than 5 million workers have bolted the AFL-CIO this year, a rupture that has distracted the national leadership from labor's high-stakes clash with Schwarzenegger.

Within California, the split has not kept unions aligned with both national factions from working closely against Schwarzenegger. But Art Pulaski, leader of the California Labor Federation, AFL-CIO, told union leaders at the breakfast not to expect the vast resources that national unions sent in 1998 to defeat then-Gov. Pete Wilson's campaign for a similar measure.

"The AFL-CIO and your national unions sent out carloads and planeloads of people here to help us do that campaign," he said. "That's not happening this year. They're busy with other things. They're relying on us."

The 1998 measure would have applied to all California unions; Proposition 75 covers only those for government workers. But more than half of the state's 2.4 million union members are public employees.

In an interview, Pulaski acknowledged that unions had been relatively late in starting to rally members against Proposition 75 and, most important, slow to start direct campaigning in workplaces.

After the breakfast, the county labor federation distributed thousands of fliers as well as wall charts for leaders of union locals to use in making workplace presentations opposing Schwarzenegger's ballot measures. Labor strategists say workplace campaigning is the most effective tool for solidifying the union vote.

The limited reach of such efforts was apparent last week at the Kaiser Permanente medical complex in Los Feliz.

Deidre Brown, 43, a medical records clerk wheeling a metal cart of files through the corridors, said she had heard nothing about Proposition 75 from leaders of her union, Service Employees International Union, United Healthcare Workers-West. She said she trusted her union to spend her dues wisely but understood the appeal of getting members' consent for political spending.

"It makes sense to ask permission," she said.

"It sounds like a good idea," added Malcolm Drake, 59, another medical records clerk who said he had heard nothing about Proposition 75 from the union.

Both said they were undecided on Proposition 75. But their openness to voting for it illustrates the danger union leaders face: Their own members could defy them and nudge Proposition 75 into law.

Union leaders say members have been almost evenly split on the measure. Strategists say labor risks losing the campaign if support for Proposition 75 among union members fails to drop to 30% or lower.

In their first radio ad promoting the measure, the Yes on 75 campaign featured union members, mimicking labor's tactic against Schwarzenegger. "I've been a sheriff's deputy for 10 years," a man says in the ad. "I want the right to choose not to have my dues spent on a political campaign I disagree with." (Current law does allow union members to block the use of their dues for political campaigns; the measure would require unions to ask approval in advance.)


Lew Uhler, the conservative anti-tax advocate who led the drive to put Proposition 75 on the ballot, said the campaign would use "precisely the same approach" in upcoming TV ads. "A powerful way to present the message," he said, is to have "abused public employee union members" tell their stories.

Offline FUNKED1

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Cal Prop 75 Is A Lie
« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2005, 09:31:36 PM »
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
Seriously I don't know how californians actually listen to these commercials.  Very few of them actually state facts.


Well based on the posts on this board, a lot of Californians listen and believe.  It's amazing.

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Cal Prop 75 Is A Lie
« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2005, 09:32:33 PM »
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
That's a silly thing to say.  The reason I'm informed on this issue is specifically because I disagree with the CTA and NEA politics and have exercised my right to control what my dues go for.


It was meant to be silly, I even wanted to track town a picture of some zombies to put in the post but was too lazy..  Cool down.  :)

Can you highlight the text sections of prop 75 that you find objectinable?

Offline FUNKED1

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Cal Prop 75 Is A Lie
« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2005, 09:35:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Current law does allow union members to block the use of their dues for political campaigns


Which is what the pro 75 people have been lying about repeatedly.

Quote
the measure would require unions to ask approval in advance.)


There's also a creepy government monitoring attached to the proposition.

Offline boxboy28

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Cal Prop 75 Is A Lie
« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2005, 09:36:21 PM »
BYO said it best,.................."We're gona 'sink with california when it falls into the sea'"   chant 3x fast   and you got the beat!   say good by  cali.......:O
^"^Nazgul^"^    fly with the undead!
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Offline GRUNHERZ

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Cal Prop 75 Is A Lie
« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2005, 09:38:24 PM »
(Current law does allow union members to block the use of their dues for political campaigns; the measure would require unions to ask approval in advance.)

So why be bothered about the change Funked?  If the above statement is correct, the only change would be one of timing.

Offline FUNKED1

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Cal Prop 75 Is A Lie
« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2005, 09:50:19 PM »
Grun:

5.9 d) and e) are what concerns me most.  Basically the government gets a list of politically active union members.  Invasion of privacy.

Also Sec 2a is misleading and 2d, 2e, 2f, and 3 are technically true but are describing situations that aren't happening and are already illegal under current law.

Offline Vulcan

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« Reply #25 on: October 30, 2005, 09:54:45 PM »
I've got a question!

Do I email McCarthy or Hoover? Which government body do I report crossdressing commies too! :D

Offline FUNKED1

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Cal Prop 75 Is A Lie
« Reply #26 on: October 30, 2005, 10:01:06 PM »
The governor's other initiatives are real peachy too.  More great education reform from the geniuses who brought us NCLB.

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Cal Prop 75 Is A Lie
« Reply #27 on: October 30, 2005, 10:05:51 PM »
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Originally posted by Vulcan
I've got a question!

Do I email McCarthy or Hoover? Which government body do I report crossdressing commies too! :D


The FDB.

Offline Gunslinger

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Cal Prop 75 Is A Lie
« Reply #28 on: October 30, 2005, 11:39:01 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by FUNKED1
Well based on the posts on this board, a lot of Californians listen and believe.  It's amazing.


no no no no, I'm talking about TV commercials that state blatent lies....from both sides.  It's funny to watch who pays for these commercials as well.  Really how can you have two opposing views stating aleged facts on somthing that are completly opposite of eachother?

Offline lasersailor184

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Cal Prop 75 Is A Lie
« Reply #29 on: October 31, 2005, 12:10:38 AM »
If you don't want me to insult your motives then don't openly wear them on your shirt.


The problem here is they are very very easy to pick out.  You assume that people are lazy, and rightfully so most of the time.

The current law says that to have your dues not go to Political Campaigns you have to go out of your way to make it so.

This new law says that to have your dues go to Political Campaigns (and specific ones at that), the union leaders have to go out of their way to make it so.


You like the old law.  Because most union members don't care enough or aren't outraged enough to actually go out to say that their money can't do so and so.

Unions openly support Democratic people.  And since you do not support this bill, you show yourself as a Democrat.  You show your bias and you show your bull**** here on this board.

You dread the day when your Democratic congressmen won't be getting free checks in the mail.
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