Author Topic: Cal Prop 75 Is A Lie (Read 1667 times)

FUNKED1 · « **on:** October 30, 2005, 07:01:28 PM »

This is amazing. Proponents (even some misinformed (or should I say disinformed...) people on this forum) are saying that it gives us the right to tell our unions whether they can use our dues for political purposes. But we already have that right! It's already provided for in existing law and there is a very clear Supreme Court ruling that has upheld it.

What 75 is really is doing is violating our privacy, and restricting our political freedom. They are trying to sell it as granting us new rights, but it's just the opposite. Basically the state is trying to control the political activities of all public workers in California, even for people not employeed by the State. If you live in California, please read the fine print very carefully on this one, and vote HELL NO ON 75.

Gunslinger · « **Reply #1 on:** October 30, 2005, 07:14:24 PM »

And I bet the opposing view has some very interesting facts of their own the contradict the union propaganda that you posted

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #2 on:** October 30, 2005, 07:39:07 PM »

From the state ballot pamphlet:

Quote

Public Employee Union Dues. Restrictions on Political Contributions. Employee Consent Requirement. Initiative Statute.
• Prohibits the use by public employee labor organizations of public employee dues or fees for political contributions except with the prior consent of individual public employees each year on a specified written form.
• Restriction does not apply to dues or fees collected for charitable organizations, health care insurance, or other purposes directly benefi tting the public employee.
• Requires public employee labor organizations to maintain and submit records to Fair Political Practices Commission concerning individual public employees’ and organizations’ political contributions.

For:

Quote

PROPOSITION 75 PROTECTS PUBLIC EMPLOYEES FROM HAVING POLITICAL CONTRIBUTIONS TAKEN AND USED WITHOUT THEIR PERMISSION.
There’s a FUNDAMENTAL UNFAIRNESS IN CALIFORNIA:
• Hundreds of thousands of public employee union members are forced to contribute their hard earned money to political candidates or issues they may oppose.
• Powerful and politically connected union leaders—a small handful of people—can make unilateral decisions with these “forced contributions” to fund political campaigns without their members’ consent. The workers have
no choice—money is automatically deducted from their dues.

Against:

Quote

PROPONENTS ARE ONLY PRETENDING TO PROTECT WORKERS.
Prop. 75’s sponsor, Lewis Uhler, told the San Francisco Chronicle on June 8th that he designed 75 to target public employees because of their “greed” and “arrogance.” Uhler and the big corporations funding 75 aren’t trying to protect workers—they’re trying to silence them.
WORKERS ALREADY ARE PROTECTED
The U.S. Supreme Court says no public employee can be forced to join a union and contribute dues to politics. Union members already elect their own leaders and participate in internal decisions. Of course, not every
member agrees with every decision of the group. That’s democracy.

It seems that an individual worker can have his dues used against his wishes if he is in the union's minority. 75 would change that. That's the way I read it.

FUNKED1 · « **Reply #3 on:** October 30, 2005, 07:47:24 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Gunslinger
And I bet the opposing view has some very interesting facts of their own the contradict the union propaganda that you posted

Just telling you the truth. The 75 proponents are simply lying.

FUNKED1 · « **Reply #4 on:** October 30, 2005, 07:50:00 PM »

Quote

It seems that an individual worker can have his dues used against his wishes if he is in the union's minority.

False. Communications Workers v. Beck, 1988, US Supreme court. Union members already have the right to opt out. The idea that we don't is a result of pro-75 disinformation campaign.

You'll hear the commercials about how the evil teachers union (CTA) uses dues against the will of teachers. Except they don't tell you that on the membership form for the CTA, there is a whole section where you get to stipulate how your dues get used. Not only can you deny them use of your dues for politics, you can also prevent them from sending any portion of your dues to the NEA.

Pei · « **Reply #5 on:** October 30, 2005, 07:50:06 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
It seems that an individual worker can have his dues used against his wishes if he is in the union's minority. 75 would change that. That's the way I read it.

The Federal (and State) Goverment can use an individual's "dues" (i.e. taxes) against their wishes. Why would a Union need to meet a higher standard?

FUNKED1 · « **Reply #6 on:** October 30, 2005, 07:56:20 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Pei
Why would a Union need to meet a higher standard?

Easy answer. The state wants to restrict the political freedoms of workers.

lasersailor184 · « **Reply #7 on:** October 30, 2005, 08:29:20 PM »

Wait Funked. If this is already a federal law, then why does it matter if it gets passed or not?

If it does get passed, it won't change anything will it?

Oh by the way, you got a little something on your chin.

Nevermind, that's just your bias showing.

Vulcan · « **Reply #8 on:** October 30, 2005, 08:38:34 PM »

Man this place is gonna suck when Funked, Boroda, and Estel are all on the same team

Gunslinger · « **Reply #9 on:** October 30, 2005, 08:42:30 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by FUNKED1
Just telling you the truth. The 75 proponents are simply lying.

And they simply say the same thing about your position Funky. Seriously the partys in favor of and against these props says the exact same thing about their opponents.

Seraphim · « **Reply #10 on:** October 30, 2005, 08:51:16 PM »

What's really funny to me is how the people who are against these new props are the people who complain the most about how corrupt or govt/state are. They always remind me of spoiled children who hate their parents because they didn't buy them a candy bar.

ROC · « **Reply #11 on:** October 30, 2005, 09:02:51 PM »

Hmm, not quite

Wife works for the State, unions contribute to the Anti 75 campaign while She Supports 75. Her money is still taken out and used to promote the opposite of what she wants.

Now, here is a simple solution. Pass 75, then every one of you keep contributing to the causes you support.

That is the fear. Many of the Union Members I know pay their dues, then contribute Larger Sums against campaigns that are funded BY their dues. That's just wrong.

If you want to fund your campaign, then fund it, but you can't use my wifes money to do it.

Union Dues are supposed to fund her work specific issues, not the top unions agenda.

And you wonder why Unions are Losing ground at a most rapid rate.

California elected Arny to clean up the mess out here. Of course people are going to be upset, especially those who Caused the mess.

The amount that the Unions are putting forward to defeat this initiative is Staggering. It Clearly is a huge issue with them, it's about the Funding! No one is saying you cannot vote, or get your message out. No One! No one tells me what campaign I can fund, nothing is stopping you from funding each and every campaign the unions put forward. The ONLY difference is they can't use someones money if they don't want it used. That's a Bad Thing? Is there That much fear that the majority of the Union Members DON'T agree?? If their message is solid this should have no bearing on their campaigns one bit.

This issue I "know" first hand, and am not basing my views on any soundbite, but from direct union negotiations and discussions. Unions are flat out Panicked by this initiative. I't doesn't stifle any individuals voice one bit, it clearly gives that individuals voice Back to it's rightful owner.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #12 on:** October 30, 2005, 09:07:17 PM »

Funky, Funky the teachers union members got to you - perfectly undersatandable tho....

Anyway here is a nice summary of the thing which California voters should read..

http://www.ss.ca.gov/elections/bp_nov05/voter_info_pdf/entire75.pdf

Gunslinger · « **Reply #13 on:** October 30, 2005, 09:17:35 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Seraphim
What's really funny to me is how the people who are against these new props are the people who complain the most about how corrupt or govt/state are. They always remind me of spoiled children who hate their parents because they didn't buy them a candy bar.

I saw an add that was against the redistricting plan. There position.....giving three retired judges the power to draw the district lines was too much.

Seriously I don't know how californians actually listen to these commercials. Very few of them actually state facts.

FUNKED1 · « **Reply #14 on:** October 30, 2005, 09:21:53 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lasersailor184
Wait Funked. If this is already a federal law, then why does it matter if it gets passed or not?

If it does get passed, it won't change anything will it?

Oh by the way, you got a little something on your chin.

Nevermind, that's just your bias showing.

Read the prop. And stow the Ad Hominem crap, kid.