Author Topic: Neat stuff from grunts in Iraq  (Read 4222 times)

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #90 on: November 14, 2005, 02:12:39 PM »
the aug is probly the best .223 out there.  accurate and extremely reliable.  If the bullpup diesign has any disadvantages other than people trained in conventional weapons getting used to it... I am not aware of em.

The 223 round in civilian shoots in the U.S. has a very good stopping power record..  allmost 100%..  the 9mm with ball ammo on the mean streets of the U.S. has a dismal record tho...  

lazs
« Last Edit: November 14, 2005, 02:15:00 PM by lazs2 »

Offline rabbidrabbit

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« Reply #91 on: November 14, 2005, 02:21:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by FUNKED1
Snopes that thing.  Stuff like this does not inspire confidence...


That would be like a "WW2 Fighter Ace" writing an email about the P-53 Mustang turboprop...



The Saw can be fed by m-16 style magazines or by belt.  The belts come in ~220 round "drums"  or assault packs.  To call it a drum is a bit of a misnomer but not entirely off.

Offline Eden

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« Reply #92 on: November 14, 2005, 02:24:52 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
the 9mm with ball ammo on the mean streets of the U.S. has a dismal record tho...  

lazs


Ain't that the truth.  Military uses 9mm Ball only.  Good thing they come in 15 round packages - you'll need them.

Offline mauser

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« Reply #93 on: November 14, 2005, 03:26:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by FUNKED1
Snopes that thing.  Stuff like this does not inspire confidence...


That would be like a "WW2 Fighter Ace" writing an email about the P-53 Mustang turboprop...


I was a little more concerned about the mention of the M24 SWS, which is Army.   I'm not sure, but doesn't the USMC use the M40 SWS?  Still a minor point I guess.

Offline FUNKED1

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« Reply #94 on: November 14, 2005, 10:57:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
To call it a drum is a bit of a misnomer but not entirely off.


Only if you don't know what drum-fed means.

Offline rabbidrabbit

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« Reply #95 on: November 15, 2005, 12:14:48 AM »
True enough funked but it does look like a drum.   Your right but that does not mean the guy writing it is fabricating a position.  It looked like a scuttlebutt summary from a guy who was there.  Your using a technicality to question what is otherwise a rational summary.

Offline Excel1

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« Reply #96 on: November 15, 2005, 04:57:40 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
the aug is probly the best .223 out there.  accurate and extremely reliable.


err..no

Quote
When they say the sale goes to the lowest bidder in military circles they were certainly not wrong when it came to the Steyr. We have had this Australian version of the original Austrian AUG for the better part of 20 years and only the adequate training of our personnel has countered its less than reasonable performance in the field. The Australians are currently looking for a more satisfactory replacement. So should we. Fogging optics, junk magazines and a barrel that can not sustain a reasonable rate of automatic rifle and fallible safety mechanisms are just some of the issues with this rifle. Not acceptable no matter the good accuracy it produces, when there are plenty of sturdy and more reliable options available. To prevent any need for a change in training the New Zealand government could quite easily invest in a replacement lot of rifles from the original designer, Steyr of Austria. Otherwise purchasing the M16A4 or similar would be wise. This is the most recent rifle in the M16 family.  One aspect of the F88 Steyr can be summed up by an actual order by the Australian Army, order No. 7196-94 which indicated that the Steyr should not be used on rapid fire for long because plastic parts melted

http://afwweb.orcon.net.nz/defencesolutions.html

The NZ army didn't want the Aug. Their first choice was Canadian M16a2's, but the politicians made the decision for them.

Replacing the Aug would be costly, so the army is probably going to be stuck with them for quite a few years yet.

Excel

Offline Eden

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« Reply #97 on: November 15, 2005, 07:12:16 AM »
I hate it when my weapon melts.

:eek:

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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« Reply #98 on: November 15, 2005, 07:48:20 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by JBA
Carlos

In 1967, Hathcock set a record for the longest combat kill with a 0.50 caliber BMG mounting a telescopic sight. The distance was an astounding 2250 meters.

thats 1.42 miles, holy sh,sh,

lets not forget the canadians..

The record stood until 2002, when it was broken during Operation Anaconda when a Canadian three-man sniper team from the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry (PPCLI), set the new record with a shot of 2,430 meters on a Taliban fighter.

1.53 miles


That's interesting, since the only weapon I've seen listed as being used by Carlos Hathcock was a .308 (7.62 Nato) bolt action sniper rifle (once classified as an M40A or M40A1?). I'm not saying it isn't true, I'm just saying I'm not aware of Carlos Hathcock ever using any sort of 50 BMG sniper rifle. As best I remember, his active military service in the field ended in the late sixties or early seventies, when he was severely burned while rescuing several guys from a burning amtrack.

The military 50 BMG bolt action and semi auto sniper rifles (the Barretts) were designed about 15 miles from here in a steakhouse on a napkin by Ronnie Barrett, then a Rutherford County Deputy Sheriff in the early eighties. Ronnie is a friend and customer of mine, the rifles are now built in the old BlueBird school bus factory.

The Army has, or maybe had (it may be gone with all the facility closures), a proving ground down the road in Bell Buckle, I went down there with Ronnie right after Desert Storm, and shot his rifles on their proving ground. I was able to hold about an 8" group at maximum range by mid day. The damned things are incredible, and to me easier to shoot than my Model 70 300 Winchester Magnum. I'd love to have one just for fun, but can't afford $4K for a firearm. You'd think Ronnie could get me a deal, but he can't.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

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Offline Fishu

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« Reply #99 on: November 15, 2005, 08:04:20 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
The military 50 BMG bolt action and semi auto sniper rifles (the Barretts) were designed about 15 miles from here in a steakhouse on a napkin by Ronnie Barrett, then a Rutherford County Deputy Sheriff in the early eighties. Ronnie is a friend and customer of mine, the rifles are now built in the old BlueBird school bus factory.
 


The story goes he used a .50cal machinegun for that.
With a scope etc.

However I'd be interested to know how many times he missed with that thing.
I really don't think that a machinegun has any 1 shot 1 kill chance, those just aren't made that accurate.

Offline rabbidrabbit

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« Reply #100 on: November 15, 2005, 08:07:16 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
That's interesting, since the only weapon I've seen listed as being used by Carlos Hathcock was a .308 (7.62 Nato) bolt action sniper rifle (once classified as an M40A or M40A1?). I'm not saying it isn't true, I'm just saying I'm not aware of Carlos Hathcock ever using any sort of 50 BMG sniper rifle. As best I remember, his active military service in the field ended in the late sixties or early seventies, when he was severely burned while rescuing several guys from a burning amtrack.

The military 50 BMG bolt action and semi auto sniper rifles (the Barretts) were designed about 15 miles from here in a steakhouse on a napkin by Ronnie Barrett, then a Rutherford County Deputy Sheriff in the early eighties. Ronnie is a friend and customer of mine, the rifles are now built in the old BlueBird school bus factory.

The Army has, or maybe had (it may be gone with all the facility closures), a proving ground down the road in Bell Buckle, I went down there with Ronnie right after Desert Storm, and shot his rifles on their proving ground. I was able to hold about an 8" group at maximum range by mid day. The damned things are incredible, and to me easier to shoot than my Model 70 300 Winchester Magnum. I'd love to have one just for fun, but can't afford $4K for a firearm. You'd think Ronnie could get me a deal, but he can't.


He used a 50 cal M2 , not a dedicated rifle.  He simply fitted a scope on it to nail this guy who regulary rode his bike up to recon the FB he was at.  That is what makes it an even more amazing shot.  He Macgyvered together a setup from a regular old M2 and made the shot.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #101 on: November 15, 2005, 08:23:04 AM »
excel..sorry.. that doesn't mean much to me.."fogging optics"?  not the guns fault... "bad magazines"  not the guns fault...melting barrels?  not on semi auto they wouldn't.. we had to go to 3 round bursts... if you aussies insist one pretnending that a 223 is an effective machine gun them simply put heavier barrels on the aug and waste ammo to your hearts content.

get better optics and mags and be happy that you have the most accurate and reliable 223 out there... or... get m16's and watch em jam up in anything but cleanrooms... and even then... if you don't stop and clean em every couple of hours.

lazs

Offline Suave

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« Reply #102 on: November 15, 2005, 08:23:30 AM »
The M2 50cal will fire in semi auto. And there are scopes made for it, even in the vietnam war. It's not really gerri-rigging.

Offline rabbidrabbit

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« Reply #103 on: November 15, 2005, 08:42:51 AM »
yup... M2's are and always were select fire semi/full.

If I recall the story properly he used the scope he had.

Offline straffo

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« Reply #104 on: November 15, 2005, 09:12:08 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Maverick
Bj.

Nope they didn't have Garands in WW1 they almost didn't have them for WW2 as it entered production just about the start of the war for the US. Frankly fishu talks a lot but knows very little about military matters. In WW1 the springfield was the issue rifle for the regular troops. They DID have the BAR in production but to apease the french and their ego the expeditionary force accepterd that HUGE POS (I don't know the spelling but it was pronounced sho sho) the french thought was a light MG. That weapon got plenty of our troops killed because it didn't work.


Well it's inexact ,the chauchat was used by the AEF as an interim weapon waiting for the browning.

The unreliability was created by the change made to the weapon to use .30 (or 0.303 ? I don't remember)  instead of 8mm because the manufacturer had trouble with non metric measurement.