Murtha.. what did he just say?

[Flit]

"and most importantly, insurgent incidents have increased from 150 a week to 700 in the past year"
Now I don't know what calculator he's been using,but mine says that 150 times 52 = 7800.
 To me, that say that insurgent incidents dropped, can we say, "just a touch"

[FUNKED1]

I will not send American boys to do what Asian boys should do for themselves.

[Hangtime]

You wanna re-constitute the draft? Where we gonna get the men... err, KIDS to fill the boots on the ground? We got kids that have done 3 tours already... while their Iraqi counterparts do get one week off outta three.

To 'win' this thing, seems to me we gotta spill a lot more blood, theirs and ours. Big maximum effort, sealing borders, snuffing resistance.. how we gonna win as an army of occupation if we can't win the hearts and minds.. when it's obvious we're losing hearts and minds?

We gotta go, and we gotta have a plan that focuses on how to do it. I can't see how else we're gonna convince the Iraqi armed forces or civil government that they have to secure and defend themselves. If it means the place Balkanizes into a Kurd, Shia and Sunni States and we shift our on the ground support and basing to Kurdish territory, so be it.

We gotta get a program running to either escalate this thing into the war that ends forever the threat of jihad driven Islamic Fundemental Theocracy in the region or get the hell outta dodge, because this occupying of Iraq in the half ass, stretched thin. high cost attempt at out-attritioning the Jihadists in their own back yard is doomed to failure.

And piling more **** on top of a wagon that's broken and ain't going anywhere just don't work. we've been there, done that.

[Yeager]

We gotta get a program running to either escalate this thing into the war that ends forever the threat of jihad driven Islamic Fundemental Theocracy in the region or get the hell outta dodge
====
Hangtime, your onto something here.  Lets talk about escalation.....lets do a "think tank"......

If you were supreme commander of all allied military forces just what would you do in Iraq today?  You talk about "jihad driven Islamic Fundemental Theocracy" but how would you identify that as a military target and attack it with overwhelming force?

It seems most of what we are doing in Iraq today is getting attacked by suicide bombers.....desert kamakazis......

[Eagler]

if(read when if the dems win out) we retreat = pull a Saigon, there would be a major terrorist attack in the States within the following year

you guys can't see the object of this war?
who the enemy we are fighting against are?
what they believe in, what they live to die for?

[Yeager]

give it up eagler, we are doomed.

[Nash]

I can already envision the weak talking points.

"We lost the war because of the weak-willed Democrats"

"We lost the war because of the domestic upheaval at home"

.... and other such drivel.

1.) The Dems gave Bush the go ahead. Carte blanche. Bush screwed it up.

2.) There's basically no upheaval. No mass protests.... nada.

This admin has been given 3 years to get this right. They've botched everything about it, and only now are folks are speaking up.

Cause and effect...

Get it right.

[Hangtime]

Originally posted by Eagler
if(read when if the dems win out) we retreat = pull a Saigon, there would be a major terrorist attack in the States within the following year

you guys can't see the object of this war?
who the enemy we are fighting against are?
what they believe in, what they live to die for?

Yup. I know the answer to all three. We all do.

Now, my turn...

Whats it gonna take to win? What would it take for an islamic army of occupation to win it if it was them here, instead of us; there?

Think they could win?

[lasersailor184]

This ain't a frickin IQ test people...


We win when the new government of Iraq takes care of it's own affairs.

And we'll shove it right in European faces.

[Lazerus]

Originally posted by Nash
This admin has been given 3 years to get this right. They've botched everything about it, ......................

Get it right.

Get it right....

That's just through 2004, many many more advances have been made in 2005. We are not, have not, will not lose this war. It's one of the biggest success stories in the history of warfare and rehabilitation of a broken society. It aint perfect, but what has been accomplished in the face of the propaganda machines working against us and the tens of thousands of fanatics that have infiltrated into Iraq to kill as many as they can, civilian or military, has never been accomplished before and is a testament to the people that are over there making it happen.

We have always had a timetable for the withdrawal of our troops, and I think we should stick to it. They leave when the job is done. It won't be much longer (2 years at the most I think), but scheduling the wholesale 'bugging out' of the coalition over there is a mistake.

[Yeager]

hangtime.  islam will aquire a nuclear weapons arsenal if we give them time.

whats your ultra brillaint post hippe vietnam vet response?

 nash, your a certified waste of time.....nice guy and all......

[Nash]

Originally posted by Yeager
hangtime.  islam will aquire a nuclear weapons arsenal if we give them time.

whats your ultra brillaint post hippe vietnam vet response?

 nash, your a certified waste of time.....nice guy and all......

That's it. Call a Vietnam vet a hippy. That's the ticket. Man you guys sound like bozos when you do that.

Other than offering up folks like Hang to the front lines, you guys don't know squat about war.

I tell you flat out.... Were I in yer shoes, I'd never enlist with Republicans in power. Not in a million years. I don't blame you for being a certified chickenhawk loudmouth about it. It's what your ilk does. You sincerely know no better. Of that I am convinced.

As for me being a "a certified waste of time"..... Do you care to explain that? Because, just for giggles, a lot of time has been wasted, and a lot of treasure squandered, and a lot of lives lost in pursuit of what you've always supported and continue to advocate.

You want to talk about a waste? I see that as a waste. Tragically wasted. Horrifically, dumbfoundingly, stupifyingly, and sadly wasted.

Me? I cost you ten seconds.

[Dowding]

This ain't a frickin IQ test people...


We win when the new government of Iraq takes care of it's own affairs.

And we'll shove it right in European faces.

Lasersailor, that is outstandingly self-centred and ignorant; Europeans have been giving life and limb for this stupid conflict since the start. You're a larger than life American stereotype, but at least there are others in this thread it is possible to engage with.

We removed Saddam from power and that was the objective.

What? And that was an acceptable objective? To remove a dictator from a country seething with ethnic tensions and just walk away?

And if you don't believe it was an acceptable objective, which side of the argument were you on 3 years ago?

[Eagler]

hang
they don't have to "occupy" anything and never will
we don't fear an islamic invasion, all they have to do is a 911 in much smaller scale 2 or 3x and the average hand wringer would sheet himself, wallstreet would tank, depression would follow, riots at the bread lines & looting of stores would begin and we would implode

[Yeager]

srry hang and nash.  that was mean of me and uneccessary.  I just try to have fun when I read and post here.  This subject is getting under my skin and I shall try and return to my usual casual self.

again srry

peace, love