Bf109K-4 with cannon pods: sources (part II)

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by gatt
Bruno,

please stop using terms like whiner, women, mask, child and so on. Its very tempting for me to say you are so full of it that you will explode soon.

Believe me, my patience has limits. You may have different personalities, Batz, Wotan, Cheerleader, onlygodknowswhat .... the only thing that is sure is that you dont know squat what the MA is now. How new Spitfires changed the dogfight at medium-low level and how (probably) changed gunnery since 2003.

I think Bruno's point, and I agree with it....and believe me, Bruno and I don't always agree, is that you need to think ToD on all of this.  We're not talking development for the MA, the focus is ToD.  Gondolas for Fs and Ks in ToD make no sense, just like 4 cannon Spit Vcs make no sense.  Could they do it?  Sure.  But does it serve a purpose other then to provide a quick blow em up in the MA which is why guys want the gondolas just like why they want four cannon on a Spit.  Why do you think the Hurri IIC shows up so much.  It's not performance, other then it can turn inside Spits and has 4 cannons that make em go boom.  Great for the MA....But HTC is looking at ToD.


The other thing that gets tiresome, is that if you get enough guys screaming what they think is happening, even if it isn't it starts to become truth.   "Laser Hisapanos" is a favorite of mine.  It's now a constant in the MA on 200.  It's those "laser Hispanos" that make it unfair.  That and LW guns are nerfed.  I hear that all the time.  There is a core of LW flyers in the MA that can be counted on to talk Allied conspiracy, HTC favors Allied planes, blah, blah, blah.

I hear it every night when I fly.  The more it gets said, the more people believe it's truth.  

The uber Spit XVI is another one.  To be honest I flew it exclusively when it came out, and now I've moved back to the Spit IX as I can chop XVIs down without much trouble in it, even down low.  It flies smoother to me.  I can't seem to find the uber part of the XVI yet as much as I'd like to.  Of course against the best Spit drivers it might be a different case, as I'm mediocre at best.  

But again, the key here is ToD.  What makes sense for ToD.

[gatt]

Eh, it is not easy to wait for TOD and in the meantime play in the MA. It is not difficult to understand

Anyway, when I was referring to the new Spitfires I did not mean they are uber, I mean they are more dangerous. I use Hit&Climb and Hit&Run tactics with the K-4 and clipped wing Spitfires are dangerous indeed, while the old good MkIX usually bit the dust. About gunnery ... deflection became a more difficult art (probably more realistic) and maybe the advantage of the Hispano over the MG151-20 increased. But hey, I'm talking only about a general feeling.


P.S.: guys, your right on the G-14 issue.

[Vipermann]

I understand the thinking of getting planes ready for TOD. I understand that historical representations of aircraft and load-outs are of the ut-most importance for TOD. That being said wouldn't it make sense to have numerous load-outs available for the plane-sets and then limit them in TOD?

My thinking is "If it could be done in real life it should be available in the game". This goes for fuel, ammo, ord,etc. If a plane came equipped to handle a certain load-out than it should be available.

Using TOD as a reason not to include a seldom seen load-out isn't valid in my opinion since I was under the impression that the program would be picking the load-out your plane would be taking anyway. As an examble, an allied bomber pilot wouldn't be choosing what bomb load-out he is taking, the program would tell him (and the other pilots of the flight real and AI) what load-out the plane will have.

In addition rare load-outs could be available as your pilot increases experience and puts that towards a better ground crew or plane options.

But for the MA everything should be available, at least IMHO.

[Wmaker]

Originally posted by Karnak
,but no case for a 20mm hub gun as no Bf109K-4 carried one.  At best you would have 20mm gondolas and a 30mm hub gun with wildly different ballistics.

Any source for this?

I see the above being repeated on this board.

Prien & Rodeike mention the 20mm gun for K-4. I don't have the numbers how many had them...like there aren't much certain numbers about K-4 production in general.

Anyways, 20mm cannon is listed in the most complete work done on 109s from F on wards...so far. Anyway, the studies done so far indicate that there were K-4s with 20mm hub cannon.

Butch2k, if you're reading this...do you happen to have any documentation regarding hub MG 151/20 in K-4s?

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Vipermann


My thinking is "If it could be done in real life it should be available in the game". This goes for fuel, ammo, ord,etc. If a plane came equipped to handle a certain load-out than it should be available.

But for the MA everything should be available, at least IMHO.

Can you see the resources that would take and the whining that would ensue if that was the expectation?  If it was possible it should be done.

OK so now we're talking F8Fs, P80s, Meteors, He162s, Do335s, F7Fs, etc.  Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe time.

Are you going to give me those 39 different engine, wing, armament load out options for my Spitfire V?  

I just don't see how that could be a realistic expectation.

[Bruno]

Originally posted by gatt
Bruno,

please stop using terms like whiner, women, mask, child and so on. Its very tempting for me to say you are so full of it that you will explode soon.

I call it like it is, if that's enough to make you 'explode' then maybe you should seek come professional help.

Believe me, my patience has limits. You may have different personalities, Batz, Wotan, Cheerleader, onlygodknowswhat .... the only thing that is sure is that you dont know squat what the MA is now. How new Spitfires changed the dogfight at medium-low level and how (probably) changed gunnery since 2003.

I know exactly how the new 'Spitfires' fly, how they should fly and why. Is this now going to turn into a 'Spitfire' whine thread as well?

Whines covered so far in this thread:

• 1. HT is bias against LW planes because Ami planes have more load out options.
• 2. LW aircraft FMs need 'fixing' because planes like the FW aren't good at high alt.
• 3. Now Spitfires

Throw in your whine in the General Discussion section about ' the drop tanks and internal fuel problem' and it's easy to show how that label 'whiner' applies perfectly.

EDIT: whos the dweeb Batz flying in 2005? Did someone steal one of your enflated personalities?

'Inflated'? This coming from the guy who cries out ' personal attack' and 'impoliteness' when some one disagrees with him? How dare they...

[Vipermann]

Originally posted by Guppy35
Can you see the resources that would take and the whining that would ensue if that was the expectation?  If it was possible it should be done.

OK so now we're talking F8Fs, P80s, Meteors, He162s, Do335s, F7Fs, etc.  Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe time.

Are you going to give me those 39 different engine, wing, armament load out options for my Spitfire V?  

I just don't see how that could be a realistic expectation.

I don;t think I stated my position well. I'm not saying that everything that was available in WW2 needs to be in the game. I'm saying everything that was available in WW2 should be "fair game" to be added. I think a time cutoff is valid and anything after a certain point is out but things before that cutoff should be considered available to be added. Now the order in which things are added is of no concern to me although I would think that it would make good business sense from a customer happiness standpoint to have voting as to which aircraft were added.

As for your 39 load-outs perhaps that would be overkill but to limit certain loadouts simply because they were slightly rare is a mistake in my opinion. And I can't speak to the amount of coding but adding a few options to planes in game I wouldn't think woul be that time consuming.

Also I have no expectations as to this game and what should be added. I'm simply voicing my opinion that limiting load-outs based on scarcity(sp) is a mistake. As for whining, well you could have 2 planes with 1 load-out each available inthe game and people would whine about something.

[Crumpp]

See Rule #5

[gatt]

Originally posted by Bruno
I call it like it is, if that's enough to make you 'explode' then maybe you should seek come professional help.

I know exactly how the new 'Spitfires' fly, how they should fly and why. Is this now going to turn into a 'Spitfire' whine thread as well?

Whines covered so far in this thread:

• 1. HT is bias against LW planes because Ami planes have more load out options.
• 2. LW aircraft FMs need 'fixing' because planes like the FW aren't good at high alt.
• 3. Now Spitfires

Throw in your whine in the General Discussion section about ' the drop tanks and internal fuel problem' and it's easy to show how that label 'whiner' applies perfectly.

'Inflated'? This coming from the guy who cries out ' personal attack' and 'impoliteness' when some one disagrees with him? How dare they... [/B]

Ok, since you are definitely an idiot you need cristal clear explanations:

1) You probably dont know how good and beautiful the new Spitfires are becouse you dont fly the arena, and if you are the Batz flying this year you are definitely a dweeb. You probably dont even know how is the new gunnery model for the same reasons.
2) This has never turned in a Spitfire whine thread becouse I like AH Spitfires and asked for the new types since long time ago.
3) I never said HT is biased against LW, never.
4) I never said that LW planes need FM fixing becouse FW dont perform well at high altitude. However, the G-14 need FM fixing. Even HT is looking at it. But you cannot know it becouse sadly your only a "forum" pilot.
5) The drop tank issue is actually a problem and is under discussion by ppl with different opinions. Only for blind cheerleaders like you everything is black or white, the world is divided into whiners and players and AH cannot be better.
6) Yes "inflated" ego. Becouse more respected ppl (with different opinion than mine) discuss here and in the drop tank thread without the inflated ego attitude you have.

Sadly, this is probably the only wording you understand. You idiot ruined and hijacked a thread about 109K-4 loadout sources and not whines. I'm sorry for other polite posters but thats all for me. The most sad thing is that you made me replying to you like an idiot myself. Now its very difficult to understand whos the real one. I hope HTC will close this thread.

[Bruno]

1) You probably dont know how good and beautiful the new Spitfires are becouse you dont fly the arena, and if you are the Batz flying this year you are definitely a dweeb. You probably dont even know how is the new gunnery model for the same reasons.

Making stuff up won't deflect from your whining.

2) This has never turned in a Spitfire whine thread becouse I like AH Spitfires and asked for the new types since long time ago.

I didn't say you were whining about the 'new Spitfires'. With your reply and track record I was simple asking if Spit whining was next.

3) I never said HT is biased against LW, never.

You made several implications such as:

I am curious to see if and when allied planes will loose *important* armament loadouts (not 2x12,7mm for 4x7mm).

4) I never said that LW planes need FM fixing becouse FW dont perform well at high altitude. However, the G-14 need FM fixing. Even HT is looking at it. But you cannot know it becouse sadly your only a "forum" pilot.

I never said you did. What I said was:

Whines covered so far in this thread:

The FW whine was from your compatriot ghi.

It was partially due to my testing that the G-14 speeds will be reviewed by Pyro. Search this section of the forum or go to the bug sections and read here.

5) The drop tank issue is actually a problem and is under discussion by ppl with different opinions. Only for blind cheerleaders like you everything is black or white, the world is divided into whiners and players and AH cannot be better.

You have no idea of my opinion on the 'dt issue'. In fact I left AH2 after HTC set the fuel modifier in the main to 2. In fact in a recent discussion about this issue in the Wishlist section, see
here, you can get an idea of my opinion.

What you neglected to mention in your DT thread is that LW planes benefit as well from being able to take DTs with less then 100% fuel. Not any where close to the extent of Ami planes but for the LW DTs were pressurized so that as fuel was consumed from the internal tank. Fuel from the DT was forced back into the internal keeping it 'full'. Fuel flow was monitored via a transparent tube somewhere on the right-hand side of the cockpit of the 109s. No fuel visible in clear section of the tube meant the drop tank was empty. There was no way to 'switch between DTs' and internal tanks nor was there a way to know the exact amount of fuel left in the DT.

See this  thread

Selective whining by you.

6) Yes "inflated" ego. Becouse more respected ppl (with different opinion than mine) discuss here and in the drop tank thread without the inflated ego attitude you have.

In every thread (both the Gondola threads and the DT thread) when folks disagreed with you you made accusations of 'personal attacks', 'impoliteness' etc... Even now you attribute any disagreement I have with you as 'attitude'. There's a clear pattern of you playing 'victim', which I guess goes hand in hand with my comment about you 'whining like a women'.

Sadly, this is probably the only wording you understand. You idiot ruined and hijacked a thread about 109K-4 loadout sources and not whines. I'm sorry for other polite posters but thats all for me. The most sad thing is that you made me replying to you like an idiot myself.

After your multiple 'gondola' whines this was clearly apparent.

Still pissed off at me for not letting you in the FW190 discussion forum, huh?

Get over it and move on.

All the best,

What do 'you' have to do with this discussion?

Taking a break from posting your lies in those other threads to post one here?

Gripen seems to have handled most of your garbage in those threads, there is nothing more need be said by me.

[Crumpp]

See Rule #5

[gatt]

See Rule #2

[Angus]

See Rule #5

[Bruno]

See Rule #2

[Kurfürst]

stop it everyone. its boring. this is a 109k gondies thread.