Author Topic: Kerry's Latest Comments  (Read 3025 times)

Offline Tumor

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« Reply #105 on: December 08, 2005, 09:54:44 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Momus--
Radical Islam as a political philosophy was on its last legs in it's own hinterland until your administration decided to invade Iraq.  


horse pucky
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storch

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« Reply #106 on: December 08, 2005, 10:39:58 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Momus--
Seagoon, top marks for self righteous pontification, but that's about it.



Two points here.

1. Radical Islam as a political philosophy was on its last legs in it's
  islam is a religion of conversion by the sword.  that is how it commenced and how it is today.  you and I have but one choice according to all moslems convert or die.

Offline Sandman

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« Reply #107 on: December 08, 2005, 10:51:25 AM »
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Originally posted by john9001
every time a "american" tells the media that the war is wrong, we can't win, bring the troops home, it encourages the enemy to keep on fighting. by protesting the war you only make it last longer and more troops are killed.

it's a fact....learn it.


:rofl
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Offline SkyRock

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« Reply #108 on: December 08, 2005, 11:33:22 AM »
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Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
I think he put it in bold to emphasize that the man is calling OUR troops the terrorists now.

Cause and effect!  
Our troops are not terrorist's!  They are following orders and sometimes that means going into a house where children are and ending in being very scary to the children.  THe war was a terribly stupid idea in the first place.  It was started on some idealogical basis (besides the WMD claim) that a democracy in the heart of the middle east would only be good for us.  No matter how this turns out, Americans will never be able to walk the streets of IRAQ without the threat of being kidnapped and killed.  Is there a middle eastern democracy or even pro-US arab country now where US citizens are liked and safe from this threat??  Nope!

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Offline Seagoon

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« Reply #109 on: December 08, 2005, 11:34:51 AM »
Hello Momus,

I am genuinely sorry if anything I wrote smacked of self-righteousness, if you would like to point out what I wrote that particularly struck you that way, I will be happy to apologize for it.

I am also sorry we differ in your not acknowledging the steady expansion of the Islamic revival and attendent surge in terrorist attacks and activity (as most terrorist attacks against Western targets are still foiled before they come to fruition).

The point I was making was that attacks against America and American interests were ramping up long before the attack on Iraq.

As for leaders in the Muslim Brotherhood "repudiating" the 9/11 attacks, this is disingenuous to say the least. The first Muslim Brotherhood/Al Qaeda attack on the WTC occurred in 1993 under the direction of Sheik Omar Abdel-Rahman an Egyptian with strong ties to Egypt's various Muslim Brotherhood wings, Ramzey Yousef is of course the nephew of Kalid Shaikh Muhammed who was the mastermind of the 9/11 attacks and also involved in the planning and staging of the 1993 bombings. To say that the Muslim Brotherhood, "opposed" the attacks their members carried out not once, but twice, is absurd. Especially when attacking civilian targets to advance the Jihad is their stock and trade. The official Al-Qaeda statement on the 9/11 attacks is far more in keeping with their actual ideology:

"By means of this document we send a message to America and those behind it. We are coming, by the will of God almighty, no matter what America does. It will never be safe from the fury of Muslims. America is the one who began the war, and it will lose the battle by the permission of God almighty."
-- Al-Qaeda statement, April 24, 2002

It's interesting also that less than a year after signing this statement, Jamaat-e-Islami Pakistan had assisting in the bombing of the US consulate in Karachi. Apparently, they oppose all attacks against civilians that don't include the use of their own explosives.

What is going on Momus, is that they play on the fact that most Westerners understand neither the principles of Abrogation or Holy Deception. Firstly, that the Quranic passages written during the earlier Mecca period advocating tolerance of "the peoples of the book" are abrogated by the later Medina period suras advocating that these "apes and pigs" be violently subjugated or put to death. Secondly, the Quran allows for and even compliments the use of blatant deception when dealing with the enemies of Allah. Therefore, when it comes to dealing with the West it is laudible, and not sinful at all to say one thing and do something entirely different. A lie told to an infidel is no sin.

We eat up both of course, because like to many beaten wives we are desperate to believe that our tormentor will stop, that he really loves us, and that if we would just stop enraging him with our "mistakes" we would be able to live in peace. "Look what you made me do!" he says as we once again find our eyes blackened and our teeth knocked out. "It's because of something I did" we repeat, because the truth that it is really all about his problem and that he really is not going to stop is just too painful for us to bear.

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Offline moot

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« Reply #110 on: December 08, 2005, 11:42:04 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Seagoon :
[...] is just too painful for us to bear.

Well, not really.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2005, 12:49:08 PM by moot »
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Offline Holden McGroin

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« Reply #111 on: December 08, 2005, 12:17:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Momus--
Seagoon, top marks for self righteous pontification, but that's about it.

Two points here.

1. Radical Islam as a political philosophy was on its last legs in it's own hinterland until your administration decided to invade Iraq.


You may want to Google "Taliban Afganistan" and rethink your premise for point one.

It seems radical Islam as a political philosophy was quite strong just a couple of years before "Iraqi Freedom"
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Offline Sakai

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« Reply #112 on: December 08, 2005, 12:30:34 PM »
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
Silat it's not just about hating the lies and supporting the troops, it's about wanting a win or a victory.  It's about ignoring or denying real progress.  



A nation wherein most want us to leave and every party campaigns on the notion that they will get rid of the Americans fastest.

Progress, apprently, is in the eye of the beholder, just as the measure of how welcome we were was.

No one does not want a victory, what we're saying is defining a victory as Bush has sets a bar that isn't possible to achieve.  There is no "coimplete victory" in Iraq like there was in japan or Germany, that won't occur.

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Offline Sakai

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« Reply #113 on: December 08, 2005, 12:32:35 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
every time a "american" tells the media that the war is wrong, we can't win, bring the troops home, it encourages the enemy to keep on fighting. by protesting the war you only make it last longer and more troops are killed.

it's a fact....learn it.


Actually, the way they learned we had no stomach according to most intelligence we have was Reagan's blunder in Beirut.  One truck bomb and the US goes home crying.

Talk about stupid incursions, that one takes the cake.  

Sakai
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Offline Toad

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« Reply #114 on: December 08, 2005, 12:48:41 PM »
No kidding.

Who cares about the the Sabra and Shatila refugee camp murders anyway?
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Offline Flit

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« Reply #115 on: December 08, 2005, 12:54:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Momus--
Seagoon, top marks for self righteous pontification, but that's about it.



Two points here.

1. Radical Islam as a political philosophy was on its last legs in it's own hinterland until your administration decided to invade Iraq. The Islamists failed to spark their revolution in Algeria and tore themselves apart in the process. Much the same occured in Egypt. as elsewhere in the muslim world.  But by invading Iraq and by his idiotic axis of evil pronouncements and talk of crusades, your CIC has managed to actually reinforce and reinvigorate the message that the Islamists have been making all along; namely that the lands of Islam are under occupation and that the Islamic peoples are under attack, and consequently the support of generations of previously moderate Arabs has shifted away from moderation towards extremism.

2. To portray the USA as the only country standing between these particular bogeymen and the rest of the world is patent nonsense. The fact is that the USA is with Saudi Arabia allied with the only country in the world that incorporates radical Sunni Islam into its governing establishment, the same country that has made the export of radical islam second only in importance to it's oil exports. The fact is that you and your bumbling CIC and your ongoing relationship with the country once described as the "kernel of evil" in the middle-east are part of the problem, not part of the solution.



The connection between invading Iraq and fighting Islamic terrorism exists only in your head. Invading Iraq makes no sense in the context of combating religious extremism, in fact if anything it has been counterproductive. No-one is seriously arguing that we cease to work against the Bin Ladens and Al Zawahiris; suggesting that that is the case is a straw man of your own construction.



Mustafa Mashhur, General Guide, Muslim Brotherhood, Egypt; Qazi Hussain Ahmed, Ameer, Jamaat-e-Islami Pakistan, Pakistan; Muti Rahman Nizami, Ameer, Jamaat-e-Islami Bangladesh, Bangladesh; Shaykh Ahmad Yassin, Founder, Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas), Palestine; Rashid Ghannoushi, President, Nahda Renaissance Movement, Tunisia; Fazil Nour, President, PAS - Parti Islam SeMalaysia, Malaysia; and 40 other Muslim scholars and politicians:
“The undersigned, leaders of Islamic movements, are horrified by the events of Tuesday 11 September 2001 in the United States which resulted in massive killing, destruction and attack on innocent lives. We express our deepest sympathies and sorrow. We condemn, in the strongest terms, the incidents, which are against all human and Islamic norms. This is grounded in the Noble Laws of Islam which forbid all forms of attacks on innocents. God Almighty says in the Holy Qur'an: 'No bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another' (Surah al-Isra 17:15).”

I guess you missed this statement back in 2001? It takes an idiot of the stature of your current leader to squander this amount of goodwill from your ostensible ideological enemies.



I think you're losing it bud. No-one is questioning the occurance any of those incidents that you list, but only one of them has even the most tenous connection with Iraq and certainly not enough to justify the actions of the last three years.

 I think you had better expand your research a bit

Offline Sakai

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« Reply #116 on: December 08, 2005, 01:06:44 PM »
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Originally posted by Toad
No kidding.

Who cares about the the Sabra and Shatila refugee camp murders anyway?


Cool!

No one in the world has ever tried to rationalize that intervention blunder before, not even Reagan's closest crony apologists, let us know what you think OK?

Sakai
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Offline Sakai

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« Reply #117 on: December 08, 2005, 01:10:11 PM »
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Originally posted by lazs2
I think David Horowitz is a pretty courageous guy..  He has been abandoned and villified by all the lefties that he grew up with and was once a part of.  I can't find anything about him that seems dishonest...

lazs


Horowitz was a Leninist, "lefties" in this nation were never Leninists, few indeed anyway.  Christopher Hitchens was a maoist.

I think if I wanted to worry, I'd become a right winger and consider why all the Maoists and Leninists flocked to my banner.

I'm sure it can't be the totalitarian, oligarchical nature of the Party can it Comrade?

;-)

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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #118 on: December 08, 2005, 02:27:23 PM »
So, you are saying that Horowitz was never a real lefty just some... what?  right winng leninist?   That is beyond silly...  so left he was right?  did you read "radical son"?   It explains pretty much what he was and why he isn't anymore.   The lies and violence of the left is what made him leave the liberal cause.

lazs

Offline Gunslinger

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« Reply #119 on: December 08, 2005, 02:32:30 PM »
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Originally posted by SkyRock
Cause and effect!  
Our troops are not terrorist's!  They are following orders and sometimes that means going into a house where children are and ending in being very scary to the children.  THe war was a terribly stupid idea in the first place.  It was started on some idealogical basis (besides the WMD claim) that a democracy in the heart of the middle east would only be good for us.  No matter how this turns out, Americans will never be able to walk the streets of IRAQ without the threat of being kidnapped and killed.  Is there a middle eastern democracy or even pro-US arab country now where US citizens are liked and safe from this threat??  Nope!


WRONG!!!!!

Go to northern Iraq and you will see peacfull cities just like anywere else.  There's a city up there were American troops go regularly for supply runs.  They walk the streets freely with out body armor.  The main reason for this is those people won't put up with the terrorists and wont become victoms.  The terrorists know this and refuse to operate there.  I'll get back to ya with the name of the city later.