Terrain editor questions....

[Saxman]

Ok, new questions, but first just a quick update.

Thanks to help from NHawk I've gotten my map loading in game and have got some screencaps. I'll get them up maybe tonight or tomorrow.

Anyway...

First, I have a question concernings coasts. Someone mentioned an option is to build it as a seperate model. As trying to use the terrain textures is more or less not going to work, I've decided to take that approach.

Of course, the problem is that this leads to one flipping HUGE model (we're talking ~2.5 sectors long). The other problem is that, due to the nature of the model, I can't tile the texture. Because of the massive size of the thing one 256x256 texture will OBVIOUSLY be inadequate. I've considered chopping it up into segments (like, 3x3 tile blocks) although that may still lead to too low-res textures. Finally I'd thought of just texturing each tile as a seperate object on the model, but besides a HORRENDOUS number of objects, it would also lead to a HORRENDOUS number of textures (The model would pretty much require each 1mi tile have a unique texture for the thing to work).

Anyone who's done work with coastlines/etc have any suggestions?

Also, I'm still looking for a way to get the CV and CA models in AC3D form so I can experiment with adding tower and hangar objects so I can try to create a pure gunship task group. So far I've received no replied on that one.

[BlauK]

Try to think modular. You should not make an object which is larger than 1mile x 1 mile.... 5280x5280 units (feet) in ac3d.

You can make one texture repeat over and over in one and same polygon. You just have to make the texture the same way as teh ground textures (= edges have to match teh opposite edges)

There are always 2 ways.. either make a big original object use only a few of those, or make several smaller objects and build tehm as groups in OE. Each case and decision depends on "how good it looks" versus "with how few polygons you can build it". The fewer polygons, the better... but you are teh one to decide a decent appearance.

The custom coast line system I and KAnttori built for teh upcoming 'Karelia' terrain includes 5 sets of differently shaped and textured coastline objects which each can be placed in 4 optional places within the mile square. Their max dimensions span for 1/4 of a mile, so at least 4 of tem are required for each mile sized water square, but they can also overlap in some places and when making a reiver with these objects, even 3 of them may reside in one quadrant. The main thing is that their textures match eachother on the edges. The objects were named according to which edges connected to land: n, e, s, w, ne, nw, se, sw and xx, which connected to all 4 sides. The xx object was needed to fill the empty quadrant when the actual coast line goes in the other 3 quadrants.

512x512 texture is adequate for covering 1 square mile of ground, even though the normal terrain tiles use the same resolution for just one quadrant.

I used 1024x1024 textures for a custom city shoreline. There I had 4 simple square polygons (size 2640x2640 units) and placed them in each quadrant of the mile.

The more complex models, like planes, vehicles and ships are not available in the OE. That is quite reasonalbel, since they have required lost of work, are made by HTC and could be easily stolen with teh easy ac export and to dxf from that.

I would also recommend putting the functional objects like tower, officer clubs, acks, shore batteries, etc aside for now. The export function in OE does not seem to export all the necessary funtional tags to ac files. When you convert tehm back to OE, they are visible, dont work anymore. I have tried this with a vehicle base tower object.

[Saxman]

Dammit. 'Cause the default tower is going to be WHOLLY inappropriate for some of my bases (as to the visible part, I'd already had the thought of just mapping the offending pieces to the transparent part on the texture).

Although incidentally, my new tower DOES appear in the game even if it's not wholly functional (I get a view I THINK in the middle of the field AGL, not perfect, but is acceptable for my purposes).

Too bad about the model issue, too. I REALLY wanted to have a pure gunship group.

Although.... what if I stick a tower somewhere on the map and use THAT in place of the CV and ITS tower? You already have to do that for the CV's maproom as it is, so perhaps the same would work for an all-gunship task group.

Anyway, back to the coastline...

So say that I have a coastline that runs for some 100+ miles. I'd have to break that up into a total of 100 seperate objects and then reassemble it as a group in OE?

Ew.

[BlauK]

Originally posted by Saxman
So say that I have a coastline that runs for some 100+ miles. I'd have to break that up into a total of 100 seperate objects and then reassemble it as a group in OE?


Nope.. you would build a certain number of objects (mile size or 1/4 mile size) and place them individually or as groups in TE. The groups are saved in TE.

btw. There are some screenshots of our coastlines and other stuff towards the end of this thread.

[Saxman]

Either way, if I have hundreds of miles of coast, that means I'd need hundreds of individual objects on the map.

[BlauK]

Not necessarily. You can use the same object as many time as you want to.

Our map has over 22000 objects total, but there are only 197 individual custom objects in addition to HTC's default shapes. Only 44 of those custom shapes are different coast line shapes. All the different coasts have been created by varying their locations wihin each mile square.

[Saxman]

What I mean is that each full mile of coastline would need to be placed individually. If it's 100 miles, each of those 100 tiles would need to be placed individually, regardless of how many "unique" shapes there are.

[BlauK]

That is true.
Just ask Kanttori how many objects he has placed and defined during the past year He has aimed to make the coasts as close to the real map as possible.

Although, you can make object groups in TE which span over the mile square. For example, if you are satisfied with repeating the same pattern at certain distance.

But, still.. You better consider first what you want to achieve and how much time and effort you want ot put into it. Karelia was not the frst map Kanttori has been building. That is why I would suggest finishing a smaller and more simple terrain first, and only then engaging larger and more ambitious projects.

[Saxman]

I like to dive into things with all the preparation of a jabboing Buff.

Which btw, I'm still having a problem with some objects like runways.

I've FINALLY gotten it to MOSTLY recognize that my custom runway should be on TOP of the ground object. However I'm still getting clipping where the ground object bleeds through.

I'm ALSO having the actual terrain ITSELF bleeding through both the runway AND ground objects. I twice landed on the runway, and both times it gave me a "ditch," so I don't think it's properly registering I was, indeed, on the runway.

Thirdly, I'm having problems with other objects disappearing entirely when I'm looking right at them. This can vary on what view I'm using, (like, visible in the 9/3o'clock and all rear views, but disappearing if I use any forward views) the angle from which I'm viewing the object, and distance (they're disappearing as I get CLOSER). This could, obviously, be a SERIOUS problem.

Now, I wonder if those problems are related. All four objects in question ("ground" object, runway, and two buildings, were brought into the OE and created as a grouped object there, with the property set for is a "square tile object" and "display terrain beneath tile." That shouldn't cause this sort of a problem, should it?

[Saxman]

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?