FoMoCo crash and burn

[NUKE]

Originally posted by Nash
Health care.

GM spends over 5 billion a year on it. (Nevermind pensions)...

It's unaffordable if you want to remain competative.

Hooray for the great privatized health care system when you have to lay off 30,000 people to "afford" it.

What does laying off 30k workers have to do with the cost of health care in the US?

[Gunthr]

hold it right there, Nash... drop the worm can and keep the can opener where I can see it...  

not to confuse the issue, wouldn't we consider US automaker's health care cost for workers as part of their wages, subject to the bargaining agreement?  

I wonder, is health care cost any cheaper in Canada - regardless of who pays, private or government subsidized.  Would you say actual health care costs are similar in Canada?

[lazs2]

Rolex... when you see an old muscle car or specialty car here (Hot Rod or custom)sell for about 5 times what it is worth you can bet it is going to the japan with a new jap owner.

lazs

[CHECKERS]

Originally posted by nuchpatrick
Shoot.. has anyone really looked at a Ford lately.. Mustang/F-150 aside the rest of there car line up looks as if someone with a labotomy designed them.

At least GM has a few cars in there lineup I like. I know FWD sucks but that V8 stuffed in that 06 Impala SS is one fun ride!

DC also has some nice looking cars..

Some one at Ford needs to wake up and smell the coffee!

"but that v8 stuffed into the 06 Impala is one fun ride ??? You gota be kidding right ? That front wheel drive POS dosen't even run on 8 cycls... all the tme and fun to drive ? you ever try wringing-oit  a front wheel drive car,  out on a road with curves ... besides the fact that chevy claim 300 HP > BS .... Cads had that same dumb engine in the 80' and it was also a POS .....

   New Corvette is only car GM builds worth spit ! ( and one of the best in it;s class , the rest ?...... junk!

[Toad]

Shutting down in the US, expanding in China. Cars already come to the us from Korea and Japan. How much harder can it be to ship your new Focus in from Ford's Chongqing plant?

I think it's just the way things are; no big conspiracy, just the result of technology, transportation and other changes to the way we do business coupled with a global free-trading market.

This is datelined:

Shanghai, January 16, 2006


FORD ACHIEVES RECORD SALES, FAST EXPANSION IN CHINA

Calendar year 2005 also witnessed several milestone steps forward in Ford Motor Company's efforts to expand its business operations in China. By working closely with its partners in China, Ford Motor Company delivered the $1 billion plus investment plan of business expansion announced by Chairman and CEO Bill Ford during his visit to China in October 2003.

In October 2005, Changan Ford's Chongqing plant completed the expansion of its annual capacity to 150,000 units, up from 50,000 units . The new production lines installed there, on which the all-new Ford Focus is being produced, fully meet the high standards of Ford Motor Company's Global Quality Operating System and are flexible enough to build more new and diversified products in the future.

In April 2005, Ford Motor Company, Changan Group and Mazda, jointly commenced the construction of a new vehicle assembly plant in Nanjing as the second manufacturing base of Changan Ford. With an initial annual capacity of 160,000 units, the advanced and highly flexible manufacturing facility will produce both Ford and Mazda brand cars.

By first half of 2007, with further planned expansions in Chongqing and the operation of the new assembly plant in Nanjing, Changan Ford's combined total production capacity will be approximately 360,000 units—an 18-fold increase from just four years ago.

Adjacent to the Nanjing assembly plant, the three-party joint venture Changan Ford Mazda Engine Co., Ltd. broke ground in September 2005. As one of the largest and most sophisticated engine manufacturing facilities being built in China , the engine plant is planned with an initial annual capacity of 350,000 units and can produce both Ford and Mazda brand engines. To be operational in 2007, the engine plant is expected to supply world-class engine products to the three partners' vehicle assembly business in China.

 

[FuBaR]

Build cheap, you get cheap.


PS Mercedes is next.

[Rolex]

Not too difficult, Toad.

China has now passed France to become the 4th largest economy. Here's the ranking:

US
Japan
Germany
China

China is the No. 1 producer of LCD TV's and makes 90% of the world's toys, 70% of it's photocopiers, 50% of it's cameras, 40% of it's microwave ovens and 30% of it's handbags and luggage.

At this rate, China's economy will overtake Germany in 6 years, Japan in 9 years and America in 32 years.

[john9001]

Originally posted by Toad
Still not seeing the long term implications are you? When nothing is manufactured here because better goods can be manufactured elsewhere at a labor cost 90% below US rates..... what jobs will be available in the US economy that will allow you to purchase major items like cars and homes?

Simply put, when everyone is in the service industry mowing grass and flipping burgers what sort of standard of living will this country have?

You have a choice though. You can come close to matching labor cost with China and keep those jobs or you can lose them and flip burgers in the service industry.

Welcome to the global economy.

toyota has 8 factorys in the USA, honda has 5, new balance shoes are 100% made in USA, i could name more  but i made my point.

[JTs]

Jacob Javitz?  gotta luv that place

[Nash]

Originally posted by Toad
You have a choice though. You can come close to matching labor cost with China and keep those jobs or you can lose them and flip burgers in the service industry.

Welcome to the global economy.

Hmm.. Out of thirty thousand lost jobs, only a thousand of those are in Canadian plants. One shift.

Last time I checked, we don't look anything like China, and we aint flipping burgers thank you very much.

At the same time, Toyota just nixed the idea of opening another US plant and is instead opening another one here. Why? A skilled workforce. They don't wanna have to train their employees by having to use pictograms.

Flipping burgers isn't us. China isn't us. It is you, and rapidly so. That's what the refusal to invest in your own citizens gets you. Plain and simple.

Go ahead and defend the tax cuts for the rich at the dire expense of what in fact made you great, using any tired old rhetoric you can muster. Go ahead and lampoon other country's health care systems, while yours comes apart at the seams costing not only grief, but now jobs. Go ahead and attribute it to having to compete with Chinese labor earning 2 bucks a day, while the rest of the world can not only figure out how to build a decent car, but has also figured out how to have a decent standard of living while doing it.

"[You can save your manufacturing base by] matching labor costs with China and keep those jobs or you can lose them and flip burgers in the service industry." - Toad

What a flawed argument.

I can see it now.... "Blame China" will be the excuse heard over and over and over. Instead, hows about you look inward for a second and quit defending every single idiotic policy with this stoic sense of inevitability that sinks you in incremental and bite-sized stages of failure.

I'll say it again. You don't have to be China to manufacture, and manufacture well. You don't have to live in America to have a decent standard of living while doing it. There are plenty of countries that have it figured out.

Why is that?

It has nothing to do with China. But go ahead and find something other than yourselves to blame for it.

[tikky]

Originally posted by Nash
Hmm.. Out of thirty thousand lost jobs, only a thousand of those are in Canadian plants. One shift.

Last time I checked, we don't look anything like China, and we aint flipping burgers thank you very much.

At the same time, Toyota just nixed the idea of opening another US plant and is instead opening another one here. Why? A skilled workforce. They don't wanna have to train their employees by having to use pictograms.

Flipping burgers isn't us. China isn't us. It is you, and rapidly so. That's what the refusal to invest in your own citizens gets you. Plain and simple.

Go ahead and defend the tax cuts for the rich at the dire expense of what in fact made you great, using any tired old rhetoric you can muster. Go ahead and lampoon other country's health care systems, while yours comes apart at the seams costing not only grief, but now jobs. Go ahead and attribute it to having to compete with Chinese labor earning 2 bucks a day, while the rest of the world can not only figure out how to build a decent car, but has also figured out how to have a decent standard of living while doing it.

"[You can save your manufacturing base by] matching labor costs with China and keep those jobs or you can lose them and flip burgers in the service industry." - Toad

What a flawed argument.

I can see it now.... "Blame China" will be the excuse heard over and over and over. Instead, hows about you look inward for a second and quit defending every single idiotic policy with this stoic sense of inevitability that sinks you in incremental and bite-sized stages of failure.

I'll say it again. You don't have to be China to manufacture, and manufacture well. You don't have to live in America to have a decent standard of living while doing it. There are plenty of countries that have it figured out.

Why is that?

It has nothing to do with China. But go ahead and find something other than yourselves to blame for it.

[Vulcan]

Originally posted by Rolex
Japanese cars come from a culture where there are none of these shops. It's a huge nusance to have a car fall apart in Japan. Cars are designed to be transportation vehicles that work with little or no input from the user. No one has time to sit around and work on a car and people just buy a new one every 4-5 years. They send the used ones to Russia or Australia.

If a car breaks down in Japan, the buyer (and all the extended family and coworkers and neighbors) will never buy another car from that manufacturer... ever. The dealer will have to send someone to apologize profusely for weeks for causing such an enormous problem and embarrassment to the customer.

Are the Japanese customers coddled? Sure, but you have reaped the benefit of that culture by having cars needing alot less service.

You are extremely misinformed. Perhaps you should do some reading on vehicle tax laws in japan. After 5 years it becomes uneconomic to own a car in japan. Thats why they dump stock offshore and NOT to Australia. NZ has fairly open import laws on Jap cars, we take em by the boatload. Australia does not.

[Toad]

It isn't about "Blame China" anymore than it was "Blame England" for the industrial revolution.

There really isn't any need to argue the point though; it will evolve over the next few decades and at the end of that time it'll be obvious what happened to the economies with high labor cost. Canada included, I'm afraid.

It's only a matter of time, assuming the free trade situation continues to become more "free" globally.

Lessee... I could try the Euro approach I guess. It's the height of arrogance to assume a Chinese plant can't build complex items as well as any Canadian plant. How arrogantly arrogant of you.

[Nash]

I said:

"Instead, hows about you look inward for a second and quit defending every single idiotic policy with this stoic sense of inevitability that sinks you in incremental and bite-sized stages of failure."

You come back with:

"It's only a matter of time".

Weak. You're already talking in the past tense.

I have an idea....

How's about guys like you, who have already predicted their nation's demise, shut up and give wide birth to the ideas coming forth that might actually save it?

How gawdamned novel is that?

"We're screwed" says you.

But DAMN if you get an argument..... and what we get in return from you is the wall of text and resignation.

It's obvious that you aren't willing to fight for what's left of your country.

Be a decent man, then, and bow out.

[Rolex]

You're right, Vulcan, my mistake about Australia. I should have said New Zealand.

It is 10 years, not 5 years, when the expensive shakken inspection triggers sales. It has nothing to do with taxes.

P.S. Thanks for your advice, but after 15 years of living, paying taxes and owning cars in Japan, I've read enough about Japanese tax laws to last me a lifetime.