Strategic bombing?

[slimey_J]

Originally posted by SlapShot
You asked ... I told you the truth ... yes ... 99.99 percent of the time, people are begging to sink the CV ... but there have been numerous instances, since I have started playing (4 years ago), where they were asked to back off and it was summarily ignored.

So, your first argument is based upon something that happens 0.01% of the time...? That's probably not the best of arguments.

Don't change my story and ask how ? ... I told you that the fight was raging BETWEEN the bases ... no capture was imminent at all, and there was no time during the melee that one side pushed the other back over their field where a CAP could be used. Again, you asked and I told you the truth.

Sorry, I misunderstood. But, then again, don’t change my reply to your story... I never mentioned "capture". I said that perhaps one side was "working to 'CAP' the field and/or eliminate the fighter threat." Eliminating the fighter threat would include destroying the FH on the base, would it not? It sounds like that mission was accomplished.

Wrong ... thats the way YOU want to play the game ... not me and a whole lot of other people

Wrong. I doubt the developers would’ve spent hundreds of hours coding a strat system into the game if they never intended anyone to use it. Whether or not you want to use the strat system, or totally ignore it, is (obviously) completely up to you. However, the fact that it exists in its current form means the devs have intended for it to be there and, by extension, they have intended for it to be used.

This means the game was designed to be played with the strat system. This also means that furballers have little room to complain when other players decide to play the game the way it was designed to be played, by the devs.

... this is what causes the problem ... YOU telling me what I should and should not do

Again... to reiterate this point, I never told you or any other furballers what you should or should not do. In fact, it seems it's you guys telling the strat players what they shouldn't do (bomb strat targets). Also, for what it's worth, I won't be bombing anyone’s FH's… I'm a horrible shot with the bombs.

Not even close ... what they were attacked by was not a "furballer" ... they were attacked by the Cherry pickin vulchers that hang ABOVE the furball waiting to pick someone who is occupied

OK, if we're playing that game... Then, the lone bomber who ruined all the fun in your scenario by bombing the FH's, well he wasn't a strat player at all, he was just a loser who wanted to ruin everyone's good time.

[wolf05]

Superdud<>, No bud, I never had the pleasure of playing the Air Warrior circuit. This is the first online sim I have ever been involved in, other than Doom and Doom II.

[SuperDud]

Ahhhh, cc. I knew a guy from way back when who went by the same handle:D

[Toad]

I ask Jobu to come, take fear from Toolshedders. I offer him cigar, rum. He will come.

[mars01]

SLimy,

Sit back take a breath and stop trying to argue a point you don't have the expieriance to understand or get.  Get a year or 2 under your belt, allow your skills to grow to where the strat game has played it's course and maybe the light will go on for you.  Saxman gets it mostly and some day you will too.

None of the furballers are against helping out, but if it is between helping and fighting, I'm gonna fight.  If some maroons are dropping hangers where the fight is I will not help the clueless toolshedders the rest of the night and would rather log.

Most of the time if I happen onto a field where they guys look like they kinow what they are doing I will help.  I, like slap also came from the MAW and I can second that the MAW have strat down to a science.  40Dogs captures were like well oiled machines.  

We - The blacksheep wing of the MAW were mostly VH and ack.  Most often on the first pass all the ack were dead and one would have dropped the VH, simultaneously the town would go down and the troops would be landing as the last building fell.  It was AH Blitxkrieg something that I do not see anymore.

I have to say I have not seen that precision from start guys in a long time.  It seems you guys always drop the FHrs, leave the VH and totally forget about the town.  In doing so, if you actually have a goon on the way no one ever has enough left over to drop the town, so the goon hovers and waits and then dies.

If you guys worried less about the FHrs and more about the town and let people cap I think you would find yourselves accomplishing more captures.

And don't tell me it isn't the norm for people to frop FHrd first.  Even when there is a complete cap on the field and there is no way a fighter can up, I still see morons dropping the FHrs, while the VH is up and the town is up.  I see this all the time and when I do, I want to help even less.

[Saxman]

There's arguments for and against dropping the FHs. If I were planning the mission, VH and ack WOULD be my first choice (I HATE trying to cap a field with M16s and Osties running amok). Then town. However I'd still reserve the option to kill the FHs if the cap is small, or otherwise when there's a lot more guys trying to roll than the cap can handle. But that's just me, and my preference is for total air supremacy on the target. Nothing up, or with the ABILITY to up.

For that matter, I'd want to simultaneously have guys hit surrounding fields to either tie up defenses there, or keep reinforcements from upping to break the cap over the primary target (plus, that further softens up resistance for the offense to roll to the next base).

I had a HUGE multi-part operation like that planned in my head one night at work, but the base we'd been trying to seize was captured by the time I got home, so never had a chance to implement it. Everything from an initial fightersweep, to support strikes at the nearby feeder fields, to even reserve waves for the main attack

One thing that would help is if there were guys who could train the newbie strat/tac so they know how to do it right. There's TONS of that sort of help in the TA for fighters, but from my understanding almost nothing in regards to capture ops (for that matter you're not even allowed to bomb targets in the TA, right?) Most of the veterans, as you point out, begin moving strictly to furballing as they get bored with blowing watermelon up on the ground. The problem is all that's done is left a lot of BAD examples for the new guys to follow. There's some good guys (again, most of the guys I tag along with follow your procedure, one night we even took like, five bases in just over an hour) but also a lot of guys either just inexperienced, or plain oblivious.

Hm, that sounds like an idea for the wishlist forum...

[mars01]

Your on the right path saxman.

Get your goon out ahead of time, if you have the resources put a spit and an la7 as escort.

Then assign 4 guys to deack.  Out of those 4 make sure one of em can drop the VH in one pass.  It's easy to do, you just have to practice it.  Once those 4 guys are done they cap.

Send 4 to 6 guys in on the Town when they are done they join the cap.

If you have more guys they should stay on top to drop what ever was missed after the initial wave.  If every thing was dropped by the first wave tehy should pan out and look for incomming cons.

If you timed your goon right, he should be dropping troops just as everyone has completed their task.

Now granted if you get resistance in force you will all have to be spot on, but isn't fighting it out what this game is about?

Again this is MAW 101 as Slap puts it,

Towards my final time with the MAW, we had it down to such a science that it got really boring because most thoiught resistance was futile and it was.

The AKs started putting up some good defense for a while and that was fun.

When the USMC and Freebirds worked together with us it was common to take two or three fields at the same time.  And again most of the captures were away from the furballs if there were any.

[thndregg]

Well,  all I know is this.

The two reasons I find this game fun are:

1) Variety.  I can fly and drive a wide range of aircraft and vehicles and man gun positions, so there is always a change of pace.

2) I'm playing with and against other people in a wide range of situations, such as strategic bombing, furballs, captures, and tank battles.

People,  if Hitech had designed this solely as a dueling arena, I doubt his business would be as profitable.

[LYNX]

Originally posted by mars01
OMG LOLH you are good for a laugh Lynx even tho you are such a maroon.  You are like some other guys I know that type alot and say nothing.  I'm not frustrated, just dumbfounded at how you dodge points, talk in circles, and lie about saying things.  Like it's not in bold type.

You said you never mentioned score or stats, but look at your prior post and oh there you are talking about stats and scores as if they are a measure of anything.

You said pork a field, but now all you want to do is really talk about troops and ammo and fuel.  Hmmm  Nice try.  Porking woudl be rendering a field useless.  Are FH not strategic targets?  If not then why do you maroons always drop them first?  Again nice try LOLH.

AS for the rest of your circling nonsense...

LOLH you are like arguing with Beetle or Zazen.  You don't have a clue, can't put together a good rational arguement to save you life so you just type gibberish till anyone with half a brain tires of you.

For the last time, Awe whats a matter Lynx getting a little disturbed bwahahahhaa lolhay.



My point taken from Midnights quote above, is that at no time now or in the past is a strat system good if it can render fields porked for 3 hours.  Try and let that sink in before you pull your foot out of your pie hole LOLHAYROTFF.  HAHAHA.  If you still don't get it you are hopless.  I can't make it any more simple for you there chumply LOLH.

For reading impaired, I am now addressing RedTop.

I agree Red, good post.

Forgive my late response i spent a whole day in tears questioning my abilities of rational debate   So, if by talking in circles you mean drawing you back to the points I made previuosly.  Points you have chosen to ignore, fail to understand or deliberatly misconstrue.  Points that just plain blow your some what benign responses out the water then I am guilty as charged.  Get a grip lad.

Midnights post
It's not like the old days when squads used to fly joint strikes against the city and several factories at once. I remember the Cites used to get leveled, followed shortly thereafter by AAA and Fuel factories. After that, once you killed stuff on a field, it could be down upwards of three hours.

Your reply
Honestly, what kind of gameplay is the above. A field taken off the map for 3 hours... That is not game play that is game stagnation.

My reply
Is the above a classic case of you not reading all the replies to this thread? Also, I don't like the idea of the miss quote. You have my name to somone elses quote. A quote you clearly have missunderstud in the first instance.

Your reply
And what don't I understand about midnights orignial quote? What part of a field being down for three hours don't you get about it being bad for Game Play and the arena?

My reply
The part about it being outdated by over a year. The part about it being irrelavent as part of your arguement / opinion to game play today. Midnight did say or words to the effect " there used to be a time when".

Your reply
OMG LOLH. can you pick any other meainingless parts of that quote. Who cares when it was, the fact is his context is that in the glory days of AHI the strat could knock a field down for 3 hours. Any person that thinks that is a good thing should fly off line. LOLH

My reply
Now lets see here .."can you pick any other meaningless parts of that quote"..... Jack prettythang. Dude how many toe's you got left? If it's meaningless why bother typing it let alone using it as any kind of point.  

Yor latest reply
My point taken from Midnights quote above, is that at no time now or in the past is a strat system good if it can render fields porked for 3 hours.  Try and let that sink in before you pull your foot out of your pie hole LOLHAYROTFF.  HAHAHA.  If you still don't get it you are hopless.  I can't make it any more simple for you there chumply LOLH.

Do you actually read let alone take on board anyones replies.  Or are you so keen to stir the pot with your, somewhat, verbose replies that, the actual context of the thread / replies are your own personal play things.  "Scew the context" I can have LOL fun crankin this up.  Pathetic!

To recap :- Last part of Midnight orginal reply spoke of what once was .  Past tense.  You try to make a point of it. I point out that you have misunderstud but your not having a (Mars) bar of it. I reiterate that your point has no point inTODAYS game.  I'll ad now "thread", for that matter.   As if it's not simple enough.  Then you come back with a classic.  The "meaningless" part.  At this moment I wasn't laughing or clapping with an overly exuberant amount of glee.  It's far to sad for that.  Yes, it was a meaningless point!  I tried telling you it was a meaningless point especially in TODAYS strat system and even now your still trying to make, in your own very "special" words,  a point of it. Mars01.....stop!  It's pointless, has nothing to do with the thread .  Hello.... in todays strat system a field cannot
be rendered porked for 3 hours.  Get it ?  Got it ?

Now the good bit....."Porkin".  A classic again.  Your total inability to stay with the plot, at best.  More like your deliberate way to err move the goal posts so's to speak.  Unbeleavable inconsistances on your part.  Your believable childish way of toying with poeple on these boards.  You, if you believe your own drivel, are the 0.01 % that doesn't know what "porking" means.  The other 99.9% do.  A bit rich from an ex MAW strat guy.  Just to underline the porkin thing once more in todays strat system I wrote as follows

Here's something for you to ponder over!........In todays strat system when a toolsheder porks a field generally it only affects other toolsheders or "win the war types". In plain understandable words YOU, as furballer, are hardly affected. You don't carry bombs and you don't use troops. The only possible infringments to you as a furballer is 1) Lack of dar but not the dar bar. 2) On the odd occasion your fuel is reduced to 75%. Now if your going to tell me 75% effects so and so plane I'll show another plane that it doesn't. If your going to argue that it stops the offensive furball ,if there is such a thing, I'll argue about the fat, slow, loaded, lumbering porker not being shot down. Same goes for the Uber porker that we have whizzing around these days.

Somone else also pitched in as follows.
Quote by E25280 in reply to you.
In every instance I have ever heard anyone in the MA talk about "porking" a field, it has meant to kill #1 Radar #2 Troops #3 Ord. #4 used to be fuel, but since you can't get fuel below 75% anymore, it is often ignored.

Hangers Again no one talked about hanger banging. I even tried to pre-empt you bringing it up. My pre-emptive reply that you chose to ignore is as follows which further emphasizes's your err "character".

Something else I better point out before you go off on one. This thread is about "STRAT" bombing. Hanger bombing is done to death in loads of other threads.

As for you toying with the thread / replies.  What happened to you in your formative years?  Sister ? Teacher? Daddy, if you have one,  make you feel worthless?  Dude, your sat at your computer going "hehehe".  You get your jollies from stiring it up.  I bet in real life face to face your as good as gold.  You clearly are supressing issues and this bulletin board is some kind of release for the internet hero you plainly are.

I doubt you'll have anything meaningfull to contribute beyond this point so as a parting justure I'll admit you have me beat with is your verbose ability in name calling.  You have brought me down to your level and plainly beaten me with your experience.  However, Mars01 it is my opinion (not speaking for others) that you Sir are indeed a Jack prettythang.

[slimey_J]

Originally posted by mars01
Sit back take a breath and stop trying to argue a point you don't have the expieriance to understand or get.  Get a year or 2 under your belt, allow your skills to grow to where the strat game has played it's course and maybe the light will go on for you.  Saxman gets it mostly and some day you will too.

So, since you've got more experience in the game, you're correct by default? Your opinion is automatically the correct one? That seems to be an overriding theme with you and your squad – that strat is something you grow out of. I kind of doubt that only "noobs" are doing the strat bombing.

Anyhow, I'm not a strat player. If you’ll read my initial post here that started this whole mess of a thread, I said I took a formation of bombers on a whim and hit a strat target – I was wondering what kind of impact it had on the game.

Take a look at my score – I think I've flown 3 or 4 bomber missions since joining the game, plus a handful of goon runs. My favorite rides are the A6M2, KI-84 and Hurri IIC. I love mixing it up in a turn fight more than anything else in the game.

However...

I think it smacks of misplaced elitism and unearned arrogance (nothing new in this crowd, I’m sure) to take the view that all strat gaming is bad and should be met with insults and sarcasm. Which is why I’ve been wasting my time typing up replies in this thread.

As has been mentioned before - in a perfect world, every map would have a "fighter town", just like a "tank town". Furballers could duke it out with no impact on who wins the map. Until this happens, or until CT comes out, I guess everyone is just SOL.

[LYNX]

Originally posted by Toad
No, I just sacrifice a chicken to JoBu every day, asking him to make you guys so happy in the CT that you never visit the MA again.

Everyone one will be happy and Jobu will get a bottle of rum.

Please stop.  It's not big and it's not clever.  I'm not talking about the sacrifies either.

[LYNX]

A point made by E25280 that I feel I should address.

The original question involved refineries and factories. Hangers did not come into the picture until Toad and you came in and decided to turn this into a furball vs stategic shout match. I will also put some blame on Lynx for taking the bait (not that anyone cares who I "blame", but whatever).

E25280 you are correct.  I did take the bait.  A blunder on my behalf for allowing the thread to be Hi-Jacked.  I extend my appols to SLIMEY-J

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by slimey_J
So, your first argument is based upon something that happens 0.01% of the time...? That's probably not the best of arguments.



Sorry, I misunderstood. But, then again, don’t change my reply to your story... I never mentioned "capture". I said that perhaps one side was "working to 'CAP' the field and/or eliminate the fighter threat." Eliminating the fighter threat would include destroying the FH on the base, would it not? It sounds like that mission was accomplished.



Wrong. I doubt the developers would’ve spent hundreds of hours coding a strat system into the game if they never intended anyone to use it. Whether or not you want to use the strat system, or totally ignore it, is (obviously) completely up to you. However, the fact that it exists in its current form means the devs have intended for it to be there and, by extension, they have intended for it to be used.

This means the game was designed to be played with the strat system. This also means that furballers have little room to complain when other players decide to play the game the way it was designed to be played, by the devs.



Again... to reiterate this point, I never told you or any other furballers what you should or should not do. In fact, it seems it's you guys telling the strat players what they shouldn't do (bomb strat targets). Also, for what it's worth, I won't be bombing anyone’s FH's… I'm a horrible shot with the bombs.



OK, if we're playing that game... Then, the lone bomber who ruined all the fun in your scenario by bombing the FH's, well he wasn't a strat player at all, he was just a loser who wanted to ruin everyone's good time.

Originally posted by slimey_J
Can you give me an example of a situation in which one player easily ruined the dogfighting enjoyment of many?

Listen ... the above quote is what you posted ... and I answered it ... you didn't quantify a specific percentage that the events needed to occur ... in fact you said ...  Can you give me an example ... and I did. Now that I have, you are trying to discredit them with smoke and mirrors. I'm sorry that I answered you question. I don't think that you acutally thought that someone would answer it so now your back-peddling.

The developers spent hundreds of hours coding a strat system into the game for those who want to use it ... but there is no coad FORCING anyone to use it. This game can use a map from one Wednesday to the next (when it is autoreset) without ever capturing a field ... and HT wouldn't blink an eye or be upset ... ya wanna know why ? ... because he still got your $14.95 ... it makes no difference to him.

One more time ... and read carefully ... go ahead and play the strat/capture game till ya puke ... I don't care. Here is the important part ... if there was a furball raging between two fields, in the overall schema and logic of this game ... those 2 fields ARE NOT NEEDED to "WIN THE W@R" ... get it ? Go bomb the watermelon out of everything else ... have a blast ... knock yourself out ... "WIN THE W@R" ... we don't care ... just don't "grief" the furball.

But, in the overall schema and logic of "griefers", the raging furball must be destroyed ... why ? ... just because ... or "too many resources" are being used in the furball. That is the part that pisses people off.

Now ... back to strat ... go bomb/jabo/strafe every single strat target there is ... makes no difference to us ... just leave the furball alone.

[SlapShot]

As has been mentioned before - in a perfect world, every map would have a "fighter town", just like a "tank town". Furballers could duke it out with no impact on who wins the map. Until this happens, or until CT comes out, I guess everyone is just SOL.

There is a new map that has 3 fields in close proximity and was meant to be used as a "Fighter Town" ... but as I said before ... the griefer bomber boyz can't help themselves and feel the need to bomb the FHs at these fields ... all countries are to blame ... all countries have griefer bomber boyz ... but the bottom line is that these fields really mean sqaut in the capture/win the war scenario, but for some reason, they need to be bombed ... sad.

[slimey_J]

Originally posted by SlapShot
Listen ... the above quote is what you posted ... and I answered it ... you didn't quantify a specific percentage that the events needed to occur ... in fact you said ...  Can you give me an example ... and I did. Now that I have, you are trying to discredit them with smoke and mirrors. I'm sorry that I answered you question. I don't think that you acutally thought that someone would answer it so now your back-peddling.

Come on slapshot, I'm not backpeddling. You know and I know that it's just silly to base an argument on something that happens that infrequently. I asked for an example, and the first thing you come up with to make your point is a scenario that, by your own admission, almost never happens.

One more time ... and read carefully ... go ahead and play the strat/capture game till ya puke ... I don't care.

I think it's you that needs to read carefully – I'm not a strat player. Additionally, I believe the strat players would play till they puke if the furballers would quit interrupting things with their holier-than-thou sarcastic comments.

Now ... back to strat ... go bomb/jabo/strafe every single strat target there is ... makes no difference to us

To refresh your memory once more – this thread is about bombing strat targets. The mere fact that you and your squad members saw fit to jump into this thread disproves your repeated declaration that you don’t care about strat players bombing strat targets. If that were true, and you guys truly didn't care, you and your pals would've never ventured into this debate.