Author Topic: Bring back dropping fuels to 25%  (Read 8505 times)

Offline ChopSaw

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 474
Bring back dropping fuels to 25%
« Reply #60 on: March 09, 2006, 07:12:35 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by dedalos
Well, most of the times we don't call ourselfs furbalers.  The building fighters call us that.  I like the oportunity to defend a field.  For that, I may need fuel.  You g uys obviusly have a problem with that, so your solution is that I need to go to the DA and furball because I interfeer with your building war?

Who is really the arrogant punk here?  If you think you are an easy kill, thats your problem.  Go in the DA and practice.  What you people are really asking for is the ability to batle buildings without those pesky fighters around.  So, we call everyone that wants to play the game in a way different than us a 'furbaler' and ask them to go to the DA?  

Most people you call furballers, are really not.  They just like fighting, buffs, planes, gvs, chutes, what ever.  For that, they need fuel and FHs.  You are just complaing that you cannot stop them from doing that.

Yep, we are arogant punks alright.


Well I don’t know about all of them being “arrogant punks”, but your postings have always defined you very well.

I doubt very much that any bomber pilot (in your words bufftard and/or toolshedder) wants to bomb buildings without fighter’s attacking us.  What we would like is the ability to have an effect on the game when we do drop buildings.  I can understand this is an inconvenience to you and if we went back to 25% fuel it would be an even greater one.

I spoke to a furballer who called himself that.  He like furballing and wasn’t ashamed to say it.  He said 25% fuel was not a problem for him since he liked to defend bases as a rule and he always had plenty of fuel to do that.  I have nothing at all against furballers.  It’s an important aspect of the game.  I do have something against furballers that whine about everything not being their way.

I’d also like my bomber guns de-nerfed.  The current nerfing that’s been done to bomber guns isn’t enough, is it?  We’re still shooting fighters down.  So instead of learning to do it right, you complain to HTC in hopes they’ll nerf bomber guns further.

The way bombs drop has been nerfed from AH1 and that’s still not good enough for you.  We’re still dropping buildings and that won’t do, will it?  In AH1 a hanger could be dropped by one salvo of 1K bombs from a formation.  Now it takes two slavos.  But you complain to try and get the bombs nerfed some more because we still take down hangers and that ruins your “fun”.  Or you try to get the bomber sight nerfed.

Bottom line?  You want the game to be arranged in such a way that you won’t be inconvenienced in any fashion.  You want to be able to shoot down bombers without the pesky inconvenience of having them actually hit you when they shoot.  You don’t want your hangers, fuel, or ammo load out effected.  Just wouldn’t be fair, would it?

I’m sorry.  I seem to have lost track.  Just who is it, again, that’s trying to have the game all their own way and force everyone else to play it that way?

Offline SuperDud

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4587
Bring back dropping fuels to 25%
« Reply #61 on: March 09, 2006, 07:27:13 PM »
I think you are confused chop. Bombing has been made much easier since AH1. No more wind or calibration. Just hold down the Y button for 3 seconds and you're good. Also, the guns on a buff have always been lazer accurate. Furthermore, you get 3 aircraft all firing as 1. This means at any one time(and I'll be conservative) you can have 12 .50cal MGs shooting at you. Also you get to lose 3 aircraft before you have to return to the tower.


Poor bomber pilots lol.


This has just turned into another furballer vs toolshedder thread. Basically toolshedders will continue to kill FHs for no reason and furballers will continue to whine about it. Does that basically sum it all up?
SuperDud
++Blue Knights++

Offline ChopSaw

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 474
Bring back dropping fuels to 25%
« Reply #62 on: March 09, 2006, 07:29:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by hubsonfire
One thing to keep in mind is that the war is, ideally, the premise for fighting. Without actual combat between players, there's nothing; the game simply becomes a huge target range. While in real, actual war where the lives of tens of thousands are on the line, denying the enemy the resources he needs to fight is imperative, this same strategy makes for intolerably dull gameplay when carried to MMOG's.

I personally would like to see a robust strat system, with worthwhile targets for bombers, as well as bombers that act more like bombers. What I do not like is people trying to get HTC to set the game up in such a way as to prevent the rest of us from playing, or allowing us only certain aircraft.
This is a situation which only benefits the side with a pronounced numerical advantage, which again, contributes only to a decline in the quality of gameplay for everyone else, which means more unhappy customers, and, eventually, fewer customers.

It's tough to work out a better setup that improves gameplay for everyone, and I personally don't like the idea of going back to setups that were worse than what we have now.


I played AH1 for years with the old settings and I never found it to be intolerably dull nor did I ever see a situation where anyone didn’t have the opportunity to fight.  Perhaps he/she was inhibited in their ability to take the fight to the enemy in their preferred aircraft, but that was part of the game.

In AH1 numerical advantages were not as important as they are now.  A side with fewer pilots could still pull it out of the hat.  Now in AH2, the side with more pilots wins.  Every single time.

The old setup provided for more difficult play.  It provided for more ways to play and have an effect.  You had to think about strategy more.  You had to be more concerned about defending your assets.  It was more interesting.

The new setup provides for more care free play.  It’s easier.  You don’t have to worry about your fuel being reduced to 25%.  Don’t have to worry so much about protecting the assets of your fields.  Don’t have to worry so much about people hitting your HQ, because it takes so much more now to bring it down and it has to come all the way down to achieve even the 5 minutes of inconvenience it takes to re-supply it and bring it back up.  This benefits at least two groups of people.  The people that like fighter vs. fighter fighting and have little interest in anything else.  The second group of people are the prepubescent squeakers.  They’re attracted to the instant gratification the game now offers.  None of the old frustration with actually having to worry about a field being fit enough to take off from and go where you want.  Fields closer, so you don’t have to wait so long to get into the action.  Want to shoot bombers down?  Simply come up on their six, throttle back to maintain 1.0 distance and start blazing away.

It’s become an easier, simpler, quicker, less interesting game.

Offline SuperDud

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4587
Bring back dropping fuels to 25%
« Reply #63 on: March 09, 2006, 07:31:36 PM »
WAIT A MINUTE!

Is this sgtdueax???
SuperDud
++Blue Knights++

Offline hubsonfire

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8658
Bring back dropping fuels to 25%
« Reply #64 on: March 09, 2006, 07:36:19 PM »
Well, great, now we know how everyone feels, no one yet has explained how porking fuel back to 25% improves gameplay, we've already established how it negatively affected the game, and now we're stooping to calling names and telling people they suck.

BTW, Chopsaw, the answer to your question is "you". We'd like the aspect of gameplay in question to pretty much stay the same. You, however, have requested 3 separate changes.

Queue up the "furballers suck" canned replies, this thread has run it's course.

This has got to be a troll. He can't possibly be serious about bombing.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2006, 07:40:00 PM by hubsonfire »
mook
++Blue Knights++

Proper punctuation and capitalization go a long way towards people paying attention to your posts.  -Stoney
I was wondering why I get ignored so often.  -Hitech

Offline SuperDud

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4587
Bring back dropping fuels to 25%
« Reply #65 on: March 09, 2006, 07:40:33 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ChopSaw
None of the old frustration with actually having to worry about a field being fit enough to take off from and go where you want.  Fields closer, so you don’t have to wait so long to get into the action.  Want to shoot bombers down?  Simply come up on their six, throttle back to maintain 1.0 distance and start blazing away.

 


I don't want frustration, I come to this game to get away from that. If you feel the need to be challenged maybe you should take up a hobby.

Oh and if you are the bomber getting killed by the 1K fighter, you need A LOT of practice! Any buffer will tell you a fighter hanging 1K off their 6 is as good as dead.
SuperDud
++Blue Knights++

Offline Wolf14

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 858
Bring back dropping fuels to 25%
« Reply #66 on: March 09, 2006, 07:51:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by hubsonfire
Wow, this is telling. Furballers don't play your way, and need to go to a different arena. Never heard that one before. :rolleyes:



Sorry Hub things dont always come out right from what I am thinking and to how I type what I am thinking.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that those furballers get so upset that the fun police came in and ruined their glorious furball, have an option to an arena where they can control the variables of their engagements without the fun police comming in and ruining their fun.

Those furballers that do contribute in what ever way they do to an offenensive and deffensive operation do not need to leave and go to another arena.

Like I said furballers are needed, they cant be an island unto themselves though in the main arean as it is structured now.

Offline SuperDud

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4587
Bring back dropping fuels to 25%
« Reply #67 on: March 09, 2006, 08:10:14 PM »
Here's the point you miss Wolf. When the fun police come and destroy a fight furballers either:

A) Go elsewhere and start another 1

B) Log for the night

There is never a time where a light from on high hits them and they think, " OMG! I better help with the war effort!!!"

Hopefully one day all the little generals out there will realize this and leave us be. And as I've said before, just consider us tying up enemy resources by engaging them. Because if we weren't they'd be interferring with the super dooper leet ops mishunz@#$@
SuperDud
++Blue Knights++

Offline ChopSaw

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 474
Bring back dropping fuels to 25%
« Reply #68 on: March 09, 2006, 08:14:39 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SuperDud
I think you are confused chop. Bombing has been made much easier since AH1. No more wind or calibration. Just hold down the Y button for 3 seconds and you're good. Also, the guns on a buff have always been lazer accurate. Furthermore, you get 3 aircraft all firing as 1. This means at any one time(and I'll be conservative) you can have 12 .50cal MGs shooting at you. Also you get to lose 3 aircraft before you have to return to the tower.


Poor bomber pilots lol.


This has just turned into another furballer vs toolshedder thread. Basically toolshedders will continue to kill FHs for no reason and furballers will continue to whine about it. Does that basically sum it all up?


Since I fly bombers a lot, almost exclusively, I’m not the least confused on this issue.  Since I’m sure you do not fly bombers very often, let me clue you in to a couple of items.

First, the only thing easier in bombing is the bomb sight calibration.  What’s more important for the calibration than the actual process of calibration is the incorporation of the E6B computer.  We can now compare an actual ground speed with that which is calibrated.  That having been said, the easier calibration method has very little impact.  I was able to calibrate very well in AH1 without the easier method and without the E6B computer.  Six salvos equaled six hangers.  Every time.  Now with the bomb dispersion set up the way it is you need to drop two salvos.  Just for the record, holding that Y button down for a mere 3 seconds doesn’t give a good calibration.  You need to hold it down a lot longer.

Second, the wind only effected bombing in AH1 if you went above 15K.  I can’t remember the exact altitude but it was around there that it kicked in.  Even so, I could calibrate and hit an HQ from 30,000 feet.  Every time.  No, we don’t have the wind anymore.  What we do have are those two cloud layers between 14K and 16K altitude.  The higher of the two layers is often so thick you can’t pick out targets.  That means we’re flying lower and wouldn’t be effected by the old wind model anyway.

Third, bomber guns;  Lasers’?  Really?  Let me show you what Skuzzy wrote me about that recently.  Skuzzy writes:  “The whole gun solution for bombers was changed.  They sort of auto-converge now, but not focused on one point, so there is more of a dispersal
pattern.”  I also told him that it seemed the guns converged at 500 instead of the 600 that seems to be the consensus on the BBS.  Skuzzy replied, “Been that way since AHII was released.”  In AH1 I could ping a plane at 1.4.  Not damage him at that range, but let him know I was there and aware.  At distance 1.0 I could make his plane dissolve if he was silly enough to be on my six at co-altitude holding steady.  I always had my convergence set at 650.  In AH2, I cannot touch an aircraft at 1.4.  At 1.0 I can barely touch him and have to use half my ammo to get any effect.  At the same time the fighter plane can hit me with cannons and/or machine guns with enough effect to damage my bombers if not take them out.  This has led to newbie’s coming up on my six at co-alt with a more than fair chance of hurting me.  Slightly more experienced pilot’s are coming up on my six, throttling back to hold the 1.0 distance and dumping all their ammo into my bombers, knowing I won’t be able to do much to them in return and also knowing I’m spending a lot of ammo to do it.  Sure doesn’t sound like lasers’ to me.  In AH1 I couldn’t and in AH2 I can’t hit a fighter pilot who knows what he’s doing.  A fighter pilot that knows how to take down bombers will do it and barely get a scratch.  Doesn’t matter if it’s AH1 or AH2.

Fourth, losing a bomber or two before returning to hanger:  Even losing one bomber effects my ability to accomplish what I came up there to do.  What I spent 20 minutes getting up to altitude and speed to do.  Yes, I do get three planes before I have to go back to the tower, but the fighters also get three nice big, slow moving, slow maneuvering , juicy targets to claim kills off of.

Finally; I at least do not kill FH’s for no reason.  If  I do it, it’s because I have a reason and that reason is never just to spoil someone’s fun.  I don’t have time for that and it’s difficult for me to understand anyone that does or how they could avoid becoming bored by doing it.

Offline ChopSaw

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 474
Bring back dropping fuels to 25%
« Reply #69 on: March 09, 2006, 08:17:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by hubsonfire
Well, great, now we know how everyone feels, no one yet has explained how porking fuel back to 25% improves gameplay, we've already established how it negatively affected the game, and now we're stooping to calling names and telling people they suck.

BTW, Chopsaw, the answer to your question is "you". We'd like the aspect of gameplay in question to pretty much stay the same. You, however, have requested 3 separate changes.

Queue up the "furballers suck" canned replies, this thread has run it's course.

This has got to be a troll. He can't possibly be serious about bombing.


You're only partially correct.  I'd like to see the changes that have already been made to fit your requests changed back.

Offline Wolf14

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 858
Bring back dropping fuels to 25%
« Reply #70 on: March 09, 2006, 08:18:13 PM »
Oh as to why I want fuel to be able to be dropped back to 25%.......

I want something meaningful to happen. I want the things that get destroyed mean something to me and others and the side I'm attacking. The way some things are now is more along the lines of, Whats the use.

I want the LA-7's to run out of fuel.
I want to see defense flights trying to stop someone as opposed to..."Dont worry about him he'll only knock us down to 75% at most with no drop tanks." If anything have fuel down for 15 minutes. It probably takes that long for the little man to run to the tool shed, grab a manual pump, open a fill hatch to an underground reserve fual tankl, and start manualy hand pumpin that stuff.
I want to see great furballs, but when they are over they go to another section of the map to get it on instead of comming and whining to HT to change something. Just ignore all those strat guys around ya, there will be other fighters around trying to shoot ya.
I want to see the level dive bombing heavies stopped and for somebody to help Fortress learn how to level bomb. Poor guy has to get bored at some point. :)
I want the LTARS to go away and quit crying about being carpet bombed.

:) J/K guys so take some of it for what it is and the rest with a grain of salt.

Offline ChopSaw

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 474
Bring back dropping fuels to 25%
« Reply #71 on: March 09, 2006, 08:22:39 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SuperDud
I don't want frustration, I come to this game to get away from that. If you feel the need to be challenged maybe you should take up a hobby.

Oh and if you are the bomber getting killed by the 1K fighter, you need A LOT of practice! Any buffer will tell you a fighter hanging 1K off their 6 is as good as dead.


You come to this game to fly fighter aircraft.

Try shooting that guy with buff guns at 1.0 sometime.  Is he going to die if he stays there.  Probably, but not before a critical amount of the buffs ammo is exhausted.  Sure I can chop throttle to get him closer, but that ruins the speed I've calibrated for the bomb drop.  It's not unreasonable expect my guns to work as well as the fighter's.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2006, 08:49:17 PM by ChopSaw »

Offline SuperDud

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4587
Bring back dropping fuels to 25%
« Reply #72 on: March 09, 2006, 08:24:40 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ChopSaw
Since I fly bombers a lot, almost exclusively, I’m not the least confused on this issue.  Since I’m sure you do not fly bombers very often, let me clue you in to a couple of items.




Wanna bet? I flew bombers exclusively in AH1 for years, and a little in AH2. Before that, I was exclusively bombing in AW and WBs.  Like most guys I stuck to bombers b/c I got my butt handed to me in fighters. Finally one day I got tired of it and decided it was time to get better at it. The 1st few months were rough but after that guess what? It was 10X funner flying fighters than bombers. There is absolutley no skill involved in bombing, especially now.

This is what I love about the bomber guys. They assume most fighters have no idea about bombers when in fact most everyone starts in bombers because they are easier.

I didn't read the rest of you dribble b/c I won't agree with it and it's only your veiw. My veiw(also from experience) is AH1 was much tougher.
SuperDud
++Blue Knights++

Offline SuperDud

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4587
Bring back dropping fuels to 25%
« Reply #73 on: March 09, 2006, 08:36:07 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ChopSaw
You come to this game to fly fighter aircraft.

Try shooting that guy buff guns at 1.0 sometime.  Is he going to die if he stays there.  Probably, but not before a critical amount of the buffs guns is exhausted.  Sure I can chop throttle to get him closer, but that ruins my the speed I've calibrated for the bomb drop.  It's not unreasonable expect my guns to work as well as the fighter's.


No I dont just fly fighters, I also fly goons. And if you use up that much ammo you seriously need more practice.
SuperDud
++Blue Knights++

Offline ChopSaw

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 474
Bring back dropping fuels to 25%
« Reply #74 on: March 09, 2006, 08:43:39 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SuperDud
Wanna bet? I flew bombers exclusively in AH1 for years, and a little in AH2. Before that, I was exclusively bombing in AW and WBs.  Like most guys I stuck to bombers b/c I got my butt handed to me in fighters. Finally one day I got tired of it and decided it was time to get better at it. The 1st few months were rough but after that guess what? It was 10X funner flying fighters than bombers. There is absolutley no skill involved in bombing, especially now.

This is what I love about the bomber guys. They assume most fighters have no idea about bombers when in fact most everyone starts in bombers because they are easier.

I didn't read the rest of you dribble b/c I won't agree with it and it's only your veiw. My veiw(also from experience) is AH1 was much tougher.


If you truly did fly bombers that much in AH1 and AH2, your powers of observation are at best flawed.  Additionally, even if you did fly bombers at one point, you don’t now.  You fly fighters and you fly with guys that like fighters and you don’t really care about anything else save what might interfere with that or inconvenience that.

I do agree that AH1 was tougher, though we may not be talking about the same aspects.  It was tougher and it was more interesting because of that.

Dribble?  I think the word you might be searching for in your vast frame of reference is “drivel”.  I really love a guy like you thinking he has the intelligence to tell a guy like me I write “dribble”.  In point of fact, my view is shared by far more than myself.  You and your squad mates have opinions that are well known, if not well expressed.  “Bombing is for dweebs”.  “We’re skilled fighters and only pilots of fighter aircraft have a lick of skill”.  “Bombers are too easy.”  “Bombers guns are too good.”  “Bombers are unrealistically effective in their bombing.”  Sorry if I’ve expressed some of your favorite sayings differently than you would.  I couldn’t help cleaning up the grammar and syntax.  Still, it’s pretty good paraphrasing.  Your list of whines had an effect.  We see the changes that have been made from AH1 to AH2 and still you lot whine on.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2006, 10:19:28 PM by ChopSaw »