Author Topic: American rides under modeled? LW rides broken?  (Read 3840 times)

Offline Sable

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 265
American rides under modeled? LW rides broken?
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2006, 05:30:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ChopSaw
Wasn't he?  Perhaps the first American ace in one day?  He never seemed to be the kind of guy that would claim something that wasn't true.


He wasn't even the first P-51 pilot to accomplish the feat, let alone the first American or first ever.

Offline Bruno

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1252
      • http://4jg53.org
American rides under modeled? LW rides broken?
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2006, 05:45:34 PM »
I heard / seen / read him tell his 'ace in a day story' several times. It changed each time:

Quote
I was leading the whole fighter group, which means three squadrons. Our fighter group only had two boxes of bombers to escort. So I stuck the other two squadrons, one on each box of bombers, and took my squadron and ranged about 80 miles out in front of the bombers. Climbing up, out in front of the bombers, I stayed up-sun where they couldn't see. I spotted them, they were little specks. I had spotted 22 ME-109s and couldn't let them see me. I kept up-sun from them with my squadron of sixteen P-51s. Finally, when they leveled out and headed over towards the bombers, I just moved in behind them, down-sun. I got within two hundred yards behind them. They kind of spread out. We still had our drop tanks on because we wanted to keep as much fuel as we could. I shot down the first two without even dropping my tanks. Of course, with the explosions when the airplanes blew up, they all broke and at that point we punched our tanks off and the whole squadron broke up into elements, wing man and his leader. To support each other. We got in a big old hairy dogfight, and I shot down another guy. I hammered him, and his wing man cut the power and dropped behind me. This one blew up and that broke into him. Pulled out at about 50 feet before I hit him. And then another guy, I followed him to the deck, got him down low and then it was all over with.


Chuck Yeager Interview page 2

To hear it his own words or watch a short video scroll down 'til you see this question:

Quote
How did you come to shoot down five German planes in one day?


on the ChuckYeager.org site they list him with:

Quote
By war's end he had downed 13 enemy aircraft, five in a single day.


Where by he's officially credited with 11.5...

Quote
Wasn't he? Perhaps the first American ace in one day? He never seemed to be the kind of guy that would claim something that wasn't true.


I don't recall off hand but I believe there was another 'Chuck' (Charley maybe), an F6F pilot, who claimed 5 in a day in Sept '44.

I don't think he's 'claiming things that aren't true' its just sometimes that 'fish' aint quite as big as one remembers...

Offline Widewing

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8804
American rides under modeled? LW rides broken?
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2006, 05:47:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sable
He wasn't even the first P-51 pilot to accomplish the feat, let alone the first American or first ever.


He also wasn't the first man to exceed the speed of sound in an airplane... But, Yeager never let the facts get in the way of his legend....

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Panzzer

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2890
American rides under modeled? LW rides broken?
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2006, 05:50:21 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Squire
Most ace pilots that flew decent 1944-45 rides, be they German, Soviet, Brit, Japanese all say they liked "plane X" and that it was a match for the enemys.
Gunther Rall (Günther Rall, Guenther Rall) said that he liked the 109F the best. He also said he liked 262's and Ponies (he flew some of the captured planes while teaching new group leaders). But most of his kills (totaling 275) are in a 109G, I'd imagine.

He also said that the best tactic against a P-47 in a 109 is "to shoot it down". :)
Panzzer - Lentorykmentti 3

Offline ChopSaw

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 474
American rides under modeled? LW rides broken?
« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2006, 06:38:09 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Widewing
He also wasn't the first man to exceed the speed of sound in an airplane... But, Yeager never let the facts get in the way of his legend....

My regards,

Widewing


I'll really need to see some documentation of that allegation.  As far as I've been able to determine, Yeager was the first man to exceed the speed of sound.  He did it in Bell Lab's X-1 rocket plane.

Offline 38ruk

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2121
      • @pump_upp - best crypto pumps on telegram !
American rides under modeled? LW rides broken?
« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2006, 06:53:49 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ChopSaw
I'll really need to see some documentation of that allegation.  As far as I've been able to determine, Yeager was the first man to exceed the speed of sound.  He did it in Bell Lab's X-1 rocket plane.


Ive read stories in flight journal that an f-86 test pilot broke the barrier before yeager .  Now "IN LEVEL FLIGHT "  is a different story.

Thx bruno for the sources .

Offline ChopSaw

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 474
American rides under modeled? LW rides broken?
« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2006, 07:57:00 PM »
This is a bit off the topic of the thread, but....

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_barrier: “ Hans Guido Mutke claimed to have broken the sound barrier on April 9, 1945 in a Messerschmitt Me 262. However, this claim is disputed by most experts and lacks a scientific foundation.
George Welch apparently broke the sound barrier on October 1, 1947 while diving the subsonic XP-86 Sabre. 14 days later, 30 minutes before Yeager's historic flight, Welch apparently repeated his supersonic flight. Although evidence from witnesses and instruments strongly imply that Welch achieved supersonic speed, the flights were not properly monitored and cannot be officially recognized. (The XP-86 officially achieved supersonic speed on April 26, 1948.)
Chuck Yeager (then a Major in the US Air Force, later a Brigadier General, promoted in 2005, 30 years after his official retirement, to Major General) was the first person to break the sound barrier in level flight on October 14, 1947, flying the experimental Bell X-1 at Mach 1 at an altitude of 45,000 feet in a rocket. Yeager's flight was part of a test program with the goal of achieving supersonic flight so proper monitoring was in-place for the flight.
Chuck Yeager is officially credited with being the first person to break the sound barrier "in level flight" (see the video below). This leaves the door open for claims of previous supersonic flights made while diving.”

From http://history.nasa.gov/x1/chuck.html:  “On October 14, 1947, Yeager broke the sound barrier over the town of Victorville, California.”

From http://www.who2.com/chuckyeager.html:  “Chuck Yeager was the first human to fly faster than the speed of sound. A combat pilot in World War II, Yeager was shot down over France in 1943, but managed to escape without being captured. After the war he was put in charge of pilot training for experimental aircraft, and on October 14, 1947 became the first person to break the sound barrier, flying a rocket powered Bell X-1 jet.”
From http://history.nasa.gov/x1/chuck.html:  “On October 14, 1947, Yeager broke the sound barrier over the town of Victorville, California.”

From http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/aviation/1280546.html?page=1&c=y:  “Editor's Note: This article originally ran in our November 1987 issue. It was the 40th anniversary of the day Gen. Yeager climbed into the Bell X-1 and became the first man to travel faster than the speed of sound.”

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6151
American rides under modeled? LW rides broken?
« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2006, 08:57:18 PM »
North American was required by the USAF not to reveal or claim supersonic speeds for the F-86 until after the X-15 had broken the barrier.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline 38ruk

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2121
      • @pump_upp - best crypto pumps on telegram !
American rides under modeled? LW rides broken?
« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2006, 09:30:44 PM »
Ouch they had to sit on their speeds till 1958-59 ? hehe think ya ment X-1:aok

Offline ChopSaw

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 474
American rides under modeled? LW rides broken?
« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2006, 09:38:59 PM »
I don’t care what any of youse sez.  Chuck Yeager was and probably still is a great American pilot and one of the best pilots this or any other nation has ever seen.  Three major wars the guy flew in.  WWII to Vietnam.  Whatever you want to say about this guy or whatever you don’t want to believe about him, he achieved more than any of us can ever dream of doing.  He’s a freakin hero in the most classical sense.

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6151
American rides under modeled? LW rides broken?
« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2006, 09:45:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by 38ruk
Ouch they had to sit on their speeds till 1958-59 ? hehe think ya ment X-1:aok


Yeah, big fingers.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6151
American rides under modeled? LW rides broken?
« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2006, 09:47:28 PM »
Yeager was a great test pilot. There were a lot of better fighter pilots. Several made ace in two wars.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline ChopSaw

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 474
American rides under modeled? LW rides broken?
« Reply #27 on: March 08, 2006, 09:53:22 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Yeager was a great test pilot. There were a lot of better fighter pilots. Several made ace in two wars.


As you are taking a wiz in my church, I believe I will have to say that is a load.

Offline Urchin

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5517
American rides under modeled? LW rides broken?
« Reply #28 on: March 08, 2006, 10:31:53 PM »
BOW YOUR HEADS!

storch

  • Guest
American rides under modeled? LW rides broken?
« Reply #29 on: March 08, 2006, 10:34:59 PM »
the best one was clearly marseilles.  he knocked down PFartys by merely giving them a stern look. Gelbe14