Why the fuss over the HO

[KTM520guy]

First off let me say I totally suck in fighters.

A lot of people on this board and on ch.200 ***** and moan about the head on attack. So whats the problem? Isn't the point to kill the enemy? I for one feel that if a red guy is in my sights, I'm going to shoot. I'm not saying I'm a HO supporter or any thing since ,for me, a HO is a first class ticket back to the tower. Don't pass GO, don't collect $200. If I avoid the other guys HO I get to live an extra 5 or 10 secsonds.


 

[SuperDud]

I HO every chance I get. Most guys cry because they can't handle the fact that they lost.

[Guppy35]

Actually SuperDud describes it fairly accurately in AH.  Most folks HO if their lives really depended on it.  And it is just the way it goes.  

What can be frustrating at times is when that's all the other guy does.  If you are tucked into a big furball you are going to be shooting at anything that moves.  

It's the times where you run into a guy 1 v 1 and he comes blazing in nose to nose shooting from a 100 miles away.  Most times you can duck out of the way, but when the F4U1C drivers do it or the Hurr IIc guys or even the LA guys with the cannons, and they get that lucky hit, it is a quick trip back to the tower.

I still choose not to shoot HO unless the other guy unloads on me first, which is my mistake.  Of course I have an express ticket to the tower more then most so I'm used to it

Don't listen to the whines.  That too is the nature of 200 in AH.

[ColdKill]

Total Bull!  You want to go around going for the HO everytime?  You are ruining the gameplay of others and wasting the playing time of others.  I can dodge almost every HO so they don't bother me, but to see a guy do nothing but go for the HO everypass is really pathetic.  Someone could be nice and teach the guy how to manuver on a planes 6.   If you want to get good at dogfighting, you will learn to fight instead of HO.  In AH, the HO shot is a skilless, pathetic, cowardly way to earn kills.  If you post what this guy post it only shows the level you have reached so far.  By all means try and graduate to actual dogfighting!

[outlaw21.bryan]

Can't say I don't like HoING either.....if I'm going head on into multi cons, yeah I'll be a Ho.  Sometimes I get shot down....sometimes I enjoy his/her sweet red mist on my cockpit.  Fair Trade.

[Kurt]

Well...

If your little plane passes the little red dot in my sight... I shoot.

I could give two poops what direction you were pointed when I pulled the trigger.  If you were pointing at me then you should just feel stupid for waiting.

I don't deliberately set up HO, but if you think you get a free pass just because your propeller (and guns) are pointed in my direction then I'm afraid you're nucking futs.  Because if you think I'm gonna hesitate to find out if you're 'honorable'... well, then you're even more nucking futs.

And that goes double for preachers like ColdKill who act like they would never ever ever shoot the front of a bad airplane... talk about Total Bull... HA.

[AWRaid]

I HO when needed. I try to avoid it because it's "fair" and I don't like fighting fair.

If I have a more durable aircraft and bigger guns I'll probably try for a HO, especially if it's a Co-Alt fight and his aircraft is a superior turner.

Usually when you're BnZing a co-alt aircraft all you get are HOs and I don't like running from fights at least not for long. Zoom out get enough distance to actually get my guns on the plane before he shoots at me -- fire HO, zoom, repeat.

If we're in similiar planes at a similiar alt usually I don't go for the HO and instead go for more separation to attempt to bleed some of the nmes E if he tries to HO me.


I'd rather have a fun fight than a quick easy kill but if forced into a HO situation or someone makes a mistake that gives me a clean HO I take it. If outnumbered I will almost always HO to hopefully even the odds a bit, if one of us isn't dead I will then usually dive and 'extend' sometimes all the way back to friendly flak:P.

[DREDIOCK]

KTM520guy, and Kurt.

I used to feel the same way you do now "If its in my gunsights Im gonna fire"

Problem is you dont get any better by always going for the HO. You just dont learn anything from it.
And often if you concentrate on the HO against a good pilot who manages to avoid it it more often then not will spell your doom.

Want to become a better dogfighter? Concentrate on NOT going for the HO but instead in that time you normally would be trying to aim. Think about your next move instead. More often then not at that very moment when you would normally be firing in the HO, You should be starting your manuver for position. Typically whoever gets the best position in a fight first, wins. Or forces the other guy to run for cover.

Ever  go for the HO, miss and then wonder how that guy managed to turn on you so fast and shoot you dowhn afterwards?

Thats becaus while you were concentrating on shooting that HO shot, He was thinking two moves ahead of you. You missed because he already started his next move while you were busy boring straight ahead and shooting. Now you;ve blown past him and while your just starting your first move. He is already on his second, which is often placing him on your 6. Now you have to go from offence, to defence.

While many say HO is a perfectly legitimate tactic. in a 1 V 1 fight or where the odds are heavily in your favor numberswise. Its just a plain lame way to play.
Now if your the one grossly outnumbered then IMO its understandable why one would HO. Typically though, no matter what I only go for the HO when someone tries HOing me first. The only exeptions to that are when shooting at a 262 or against bomber formations or when being vulched taking off.

As the norm though I've learned its better not to HO and I have little respect for those that do.

Finally if you look at what can happen and often does happen during an HO you might see its not the vey best of moves.

1 You HO and win.  Ok 1 point for the HO
2 You HO and loose  1 point against the HO
3 You HO and collide  Which judging from the amount of complaints about collisions happens quite a bit 1 point against the HO
4 You HO against a decent pilot, miss and end up with  him on your 6 1 point against the HO
5 You HO and win. But did you learn anything? did you get any better against those who can avoid and kill you? No. So even in this situation you won, but you also lost the chance to learn something.  0 points

So while the HO in some peoples opinion my very well be a valid tactic. Its just not the best of moves. Too many bad things can happen.

Just from my own experiance I found that by not going for the HO I got far better, faster then when I was going for it all the time.

It taught me to think ahead. Not just what I was going to do next. but 2-3 moves ahead of time.  Instead of boring in on a target and blowing past him I found myself moving for position and winning more fights.

Now Im not going to claim Im one of the best sticks here. But I know Im not the worst and feel I can now at least hold my own with just about anyone.

I couldnt say that with any kind of confidence when I was an HO artist.

Finally. you will see alot of the better pilots holding in contempt those who HO because most of them look forward to the fight, the manuver for position. Thats what they enjoy and how they keep their skills sharp.

You REALLY want to get better at this sim. Do your best NOT to go for the HO unless absolutely necessary when heavily outnumbered.
Yea, you will die alot at first. But eventually you will get better. And eventually you will see you dont need the HO. And eventually you wont even want to.

[B@tfinkV]

HOing is totaly lame on the first pass.


after the first merge and the fight is 'on' its just kinda weak.....


......and more importantly, stupid; If someone has their guns pointed at you, why are you holding still trying to aim, why are you not working on avoiding those guns and reversing to a possition where you have guns on and the enema doesnt?



HO'ing is for 2 week newbs and 'vets' that never got past the 2 week newb skill level.

[asilvia]

I agree with DREDIOCK, but the problem I have is when I am about to setup a move the enemy is 1.5k out I see tracers flying at me and then sipping coffee in the tower. My fave is "(so an so) has colided with you" next line "(so an so) shot you down.... HUHHHHH lol oh well its all fun though  

[gatt]

IMO, the first merge can be cold only if the duel is 1vs1 with no other enemy cons inb. In any other situation if you get shot down by an HOer its your fault.

[Naytch]

This is a game that lets people pit their skills against other's. We pay money to be able to test our mettle against virtual pilots from all over the world. We want to duke it out, and push the limit of our talent in flying and see if we come out the best. This is true; this is the purpose of AH. It's not the historical value, its not the befriending ppl from other countries over the net, or anything else, we play AH to fly and FIGHT.

With that in mind, why ho? Why do you want to waste the opportunity to fight? You're wasting the money you pay to play this game by taking the cheap way out of the fight, in addition, your wasting the money of the dude your ho'ing too. If you don't want to promote good fights in this game, better just leave and save everyone else the hassle.

[SuperDud]

Originally posted by Naytch
This is a game that lets people pit their skills against other's. We pay money to be able to test our mettle against virtual pilots from all over the world. We want to duke it out, and push the limit of our talent in flying and see if we come out the best. This is true; this is the purpose of AH. It's not the historical value, its not the befriending ppl from other countries over the net, or anything else, we play AH to fly and FIGHT.

That is your take on it. Mine is to do whatever nessicary to win the war. If that involves HOing your sorry butt, then so be it.

Originally posted by Naytch
With that in mind, why ho? Why do you want to waste the opportunity to fight? You're wasting the money you pay to play this game by taking the cheap way out of the fight, in addition, your wasting the money of the dude your ho'ing too. If you don't want to promote good fights in this game, better just leave and save everyone else the hassle.  

So we should play how you think we should or leave huh? I'm so upset that I might be wasting your money that I might cry.

[EN4CER]

Originally posted by Guppy35
Actually SuperDud describes it fairly accurately in AH.  Most folks HO if their lives really depended on it.  And it is just the way it goes.  

What can be frustrating at times is when that's all the other guy does.  If you are tucked into a big furball you are going to be shooting at anything that moves.  

It's the times where you run into a guy 1 v 1 and he comes blazing in nose to nose shooting from a 100 miles away.  Most times you can duck out of the way, but when the F4U1C drivers do it or the Hurr IIc guys or even the LA guys with the cannons, and they get that lucky hit, it is a quick trip back to the tower.

I still choose not to shoot HO unless the other guy unloads on me first, which is my mistake.  Of course I have an express ticket to the tower more then most so I'm used to it

Don't listen to the whines.  That too is the nature of 200 in AH.

Well said on the ever so controversial back by popular demand HO thread. I think the big issue here is that some players forget it’s a game. For some Aces High is their real world ala virtual escape. Heaven’s forbid it’s not 100% real. Everyone plays for his or her own reasons. I play for FUN. For all the whiners out there – HiTech can change the physics of the game – Day / Night, Damage, etc but he can’t control a player’s actions. I expect to get HOed in an aircraft the same way I expect to get bombed in my GVs. I expect it because I’m playing a game and it’s just a GAME. If you don’t want to get HOed go evasive at the appropriate time – separate – and reevaluate the situation. Some players just go around and shoot at anything they can anyway they came – why? Maybe they don’t have the time to spend all day, all week, all month playing to improve their fighter skills like some of the "Oh so critical" fighter jock demagogues out there. Maybe it’s their way of having fun – they’re entitled to have fun aren’t they? After all – it’s not real, it’s just a game, isn’t it?. Funny - I never heard any GVers cry about HOing, we HO in GVs all the time . Now remember, next time you try to HO me in my Osti and lose – no whining – but I promise I’ll make a foremost effort to avoid you.

Question - Yes or No to the "I never HO crowd" - Would you HO a poor defenseless C47 about to drop troops on the town thus saving your base or would you maneuver around to the "Dogfighter Politically Correct" 6 clock position of the C47, score the kill, but lose the base because the goon had enough time to drop troops? Yes or No

[Naytch]

Originally posted by SuperDud
So we should play how you think we should or leave huh? I'm so upset that I might be wasting your money that I might cry.

Play the way I think? Now your just putting words in my mouth. Read it carefully. Dude, we play the game to fight, if you don't wanna fight, what's the point?