Fighter's Glee

[dedalos]

Originally posted by ChopSaw
Ouups.  My appologies dedalos.  I went back and read the actual words this time.  I appologise.  Those quotes were real and stupid  

No problem Chop,  it was just an honest mistake  

[Hoarach]

Buffs upping in FT is pointless.  There is a furball alliance in there.  The fighter pilots on the side with the buffs flying in do not protect them.  They let the opposition to shoot down the buffs without even the slightest idea of protecting them.  This is how it should be in FT buffs should not be allowed to pork everything in FT.  There is a reason why its called Fighter Town.

[ChopSaw]

Originally posted by hitech
What I find quite imussing is the resons we do stuff. The shake was added because it was a previous oversight. Finaly had the time to get around to it.

2nd it was not added to make gunning more dificult. It was added soly to add some imersion. Just as you do not notice the shake in the fighters. After a few weeks of playing you will also not notice the shake in the gunners. But when a change happens, it just sticks out.

Fighters don't notice gun shake because they're rarely zoomed all the way in and when they are they aren't tracking while firing.  It's easy to accommodate something barely noticeable.  Bombers notice it because we are zoomed all the way in.  It's the only way we can hit the guy on our six who's throttled back at d1.0.  The guy who has guns that are better focused than ours and therefore more effective at that distance.  Immersion or not, the shaking reduces the effectiveness of bomber guns a little bit more.  We're estimating it reduces our effective range another 200 and that's saying nothing of what it does to tracking.

Bomber guns aside, your response still doesn't address the issue of the Ostwind.  Immersion?  Many of them have to stop before they upchuck.  I guess that really does get them into what they're doing, but it has little to do with WWII simulation immersion.  The difficulty in tracking targets, caused by the shaking, has severely decreased their accuracy and all that any non-gver's offer is derisive laughter and gloating.  And what the heck is going on with the coaxial guns on the tanks?

Shaking may not have been added to make gunning more difficult, but that's what it has done.  Even if bombers accommodate it, it's going to hurt our accuracy and make tracking more difficult than it already was.  There's no way the Ostwind drivers can accommodate it unless they stay out of zoom and that is going to hit their accuracy.

Shaking guns aside, when you look back over all the changes made from AH1 to now, immersion does not seem to be the single driving force.  Hardening of HQ's?  Minimum field fuel set to 75% changed from 25%?  Spacing fields closer together?  Changing the way the bombs drop to effectively decrease their ability?  These changes indicate a trend and that trend does not have immersion as its sole goal.

What would be the problem with having an arena WWF's could better enjoy in addition to the current one?

In many respects a nice update.  I especially like the addition of the Jeep.  The shaking?  Not so much.

[ChopSaw]

Originally posted by Guppy35
Last night was the perfect example for me.  Lots of us 'furballers' fighting between the three fields in the center of the map.   100 other fields out there to capture.

Guys start upping buffs.  We asked them nicely to please not pork fightertown.  The response I got after asking one of them why he wants to pork fightertown was....wait for it.....'because I can."

It had nothing to do with strat, it was just to tick people off.  There was a steady procession of these guys continually buffing fightertown 'because they can'.

It had nothing to do with strat, winning the war, teamwork, etc.  Nothing.  It was just to irritate a bunch of people who were having fun and with fightertown, staying out of the way of the strat guys.

 I'm not entirely sure what your point is.  Some bomber guys are bad?  Nobodies interested in strat?  The only thing bombers are good for is griefing fighters?  What?  Why didn't you just shoot them down before they did whatever it was they did?  I would have.  Nothing better than griefing a griefer.

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by ChopSaw
Nothing better than griefing a griefer.

Really?  Then you would have no problems with Guppy35 taking down ordnance at those bases in order to quell the onslaught of bombers, right?  Or would that unfairly hinder the war effort?

-- Todd/Leviathn

[ChopSaw]

Originally posted by Morpheus
HA!

Yeah, you've been around a long time.

If you started playing in 2004, I've been in the game longer than you.  I played AH1 and took a vacation because of hardware problems.

[Morpheus]

Actaully, I started in fall of 2002.

The simple fact that you have been around since AH 1 (as you have stated) and still think that there are more furballers than WTF ever you call them... says enough to me to tell me you dont know much.

[dedalos]

Originally posted by ChopSaw

My appologies HT.  I now understand that I was wrong.  I also understand that the people that are really good with those guns (like 999 and tatertot) don't use the zoom function.

I promisse I will try to get beter instead of crying about furballers all the time.  


 

Wow, nice to have you back Chop

[ChopSaw]

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
You make so many fundamentally wrong assumptions in your response, Chopsaw, that it is not even worth going over it to try point it all out.  Instead, I will make two key points that you should try absorb before posting again.

First, the arena is not "split" into furballers and war wagers.  Hardcore furballers and war wagers represent minorities of the overall game population, and most players do a little bit of everything.  Unfortunately, these two minorities often conflict because their goals fundamentally differ from one another, but everybody  else really doesn't care.

Second, what you propose fractures the community because it forces players to choose between two artificially-determined styles of play.  You would eliminate the social element of the game to satisfy some perceived cleavage in the player base.  Perish this notion immediately, because HiTech has repeatedly stated that he opposes splintering the community into different arenas.  It's not going to happen.

I believe my proposed model took into account most of your observations.  The proposed second arena (WWF arena) would no more fracture or splinter the community than AvA does now or ToD will do.  It is obvious HiTech does not fear another arena splintering the community.

Again, the proposal would force no one to do anything.  The current arena would remain as it is now with all its attractions.  There would be no reason for people to go to the second arena if they're happy with current settings.  The second arena would be much the same as in AH1, hopefully with the addition of a couple of items such as hardened bunkers.  People would be free to come, go or stay as they pleased.

Currently WWF's are being forced to play in an arena with settings we find frustrating and which have greatly reduced the multidimensionality we crave and had, to a larger extent, in AH1.  When frustration is high enough people find other things to do.  While my proposal would not fracture the community, it would give the frustrated somewhere in AH to go rather than driving them completely out.

The problem isn't in conflict of styles of play in one arena.  It's in the way the settings of the current arena support one style of play at the expense of the other.

[dedalos]

Chop, there is an arena for furbaling.  Its called the DA.  It is always empty now.  Maybe there are not as many furballers out there as you think?

Second, flying buffs and crying about furballers every single day is not multidimentional.

You could have asked HT to remove the gun shake because of 1000 different reasons.  Instead, you blamed furbalers for it.  Can you please point us to a thread where the furballers are asking for the guns to shake?  Did people complain the guns are too acurate?  Yes.  Those were the the strat players.  Furbalers could not care less if a buff is in the area or not.  But, you could not accept that.  As I said before, you guys complin about yourselfs in here.

[ChopSaw]

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Really?  Then you would have no problems with Guppy35 taking down ordnance at those bases in order to quell the onslaught of bombers, right?  Or would that unfairly hinder the war effort?

That's right.  I wouldn't have a problem with it.  However, that's more the tactic a strat person would use and less of what a furballer would.  I'd think a furballer would have more fun just shooting down the bombers before they could do anything and after the bombers had spent a bunch of time getting to the fight.  Furballers could also call upon their strat friends to take the ordnance out for them.

You seem to be suggesting I would be opposed to taking down ordnance because I fly bombers.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  Taking down ordnance is strategy.  I like strategy.  If I don't want somebody bombing ordnance, I guess I'd better get myself into a fighter and shoot them down.

What you see as hindering the war effort, I see as part of the war effort.

[Furball]

i wonder what ChopSaw's handle used to be?

[Morpheus]

I believe my proposed model took into account most of your observations. The proposed second arena (WWF arena) would no more fracture or splinter the community than AvA does now or ToD will do. It is obvious HiTech does not fear another arena splintering the community

Wow, quick on the uptake I see.

The MA is the MA. Anything goes here. Mkay?

AvA is for those who wish to participate in a historically matched plane set.

If you do not know what ToD/CT will be then you've got a problem.

Fact is, the MA has been the same for years now. Do not think you are going to change it with one big long whine/sob story about how the poor war winners are being overlooked in this terrible place called the Main Arena.

What is the war to you? Really now. Think about this for a minute.

If its just fighting buildings and blowing the holly hell out of them, then go do that off line. Right? Because I garrantee you that if there ever was this (queer) "WWF" arena, that's all you people would be doing, fighting and blowing up buildings. War winners go out of their way to avoid fighter confrontation at all costs to drop their bombs on buildings. So what would happen is you'd have all two, or three sides (which ever you want) on different sides of the map, racing to grab land and blow up as many buildings as possible to "Win The War".

In my opinion the "war" is the whole picture. Not just bombers, bombs and goons... As you make it seem. The war includes all players, players who are just looking for a red icon to shoot, players who are out in a fighter deffending a base (purposfully shooting down a particular plane), those who are attacking a base... Simply put, everyone.

So what I suggest you do is take this "I want what I want, the way I want it... NOW... Because the way things are now doesnt make me happy.".... WHINE... And can it. Because this is a horse that has been beaten for years. And the same answer is given out, by Hitech everytime. Care to take a guess at what that answer is?

[Vudak]

Has something fundamentally changed in the past few months I haven't been around?  What's all this about Win the War fellows using "strategy and cooperation"?  Don't they still just blow up the FHs over and over again for eight hours or so, leave the VH alone, and never take the base?  Or have they finally figured out this doesn't work?

Scratching my head here...

[Morpheus]

No, vudak. Its still the same.