Originally posted by Seagoon
I'll answer your specific questions on Monday
I'll look forward to it.
Originally posted by Seagoon
Have you noticed, reading over this and other threads, the uniformly low opinion of evangelical Christians expressed by atheists online here?
Yes, it is about the same opinion that Christians on this board have towards Islam. And actually, I have about the same opinion of Islam as I do Christianity. To me it is a simple difference between theism and non-theism. So hopefully it will make you feel some better that I don't single out Christians alone. However, in the US the Christians have the power. You are the majority group, and we all must bow to your power so long as it is deemed Constitutional by the SCOTUS. And what I have seen so far of the ruling evangelicals in office does not give me hope that they are good stewards of the power that has been entrusted to them.
On a personal level, I've experienced a number of incidences that have only solidified my contempt of religion, specifically driven by evangelical Christians. I only have but to watch the news to reaffirm my distaste for fundamentalist Islam and Judaism as well.
So that opinion has been earned based on the behavior fundys have demonstrated. And unfortunately one of the most egregious behaviors is one that I do not believe evangelicals can change as it is the root of evangelical Christianity...the requirement to convert...usually done with all the finesse of a holy used car salesman. Worse, evangelicals who are fortunate enough to be elected to office believe that God selected them to win thus endowing them with a manifest destiny and that they are instruments of God sent to legislate their interpretation of Biblical morals. So, if they can't make a believer out of ya, they'll make you behave in a manner that is consistent with a believer anyway...for your own good....and cuz it is the right thing to do by God.
Evangelicals give reason not to be trusted to be good stewards of our rights and liberties. They are organized having regular weekly meetings with local leaders where chosen info and thought leadership can be disseminated relating to their agenda. Organization gives them political power to act on that agenda. Unfortunately, successful implementation of that agenda weakens liberty and freedom.
Originally posted by Seagoon
Yet with all that you are incensed by the possibility that Christians might not trust Atheists? [You assumed, incidently, that the majority of the respondents were fundamentalist Christians, which is highly unlikely.] Why would you care what such an obvious bunch of hateful "mo-rons" like us think anyway?
I'm not as much incensed as I am surprised. Non-theists are in no way a threat to this country's way of life...unlike fundy Islam for example. Non-theists are not organized...there is no church-like structure; there are no pastor-like leaders. We have no agenda to spread our views on religion and deconvert Christians. We don't go knocking on doors asking residents if they have a personal relationship with God and then ask why if they answer yes.
Our primary goal is simply to be let alone by theists...but especially to not have government perverted so that fundys can use it as a vehicle to proselytize to us.
My only reason for caring is that fundies are in power. And if they view non-theists as the "commie" of the new century, then I am literally afraid. If non-theists are the least trusted then they become the scapegoat for all this country's problems. Moral decay ---> it's those damn amoral atheists; sensitivity to diversity by Christmas retailers ---> it's those damn anti-Christmas atheists; etc. I don't want to see McCarthistic atheist hunts where being non-theist is considered dirty. And it appears that theists in this country already view us as dirty...so much so that the majority do not even want their children to marry an non-theist! That type of mentality leads to discrimination and bigotry, which theists will justify or turn a blind eye even though they would think it is wrong were it a racial ethnic group rather than atheists.
Originally posted by Seagoon
but what exactly do you find so contemptible about me and others like me?
I'm sure you are a wonderful person...and one day I'd love to take a road trip through your area and drop in on one of your Sunday services. I would only hope that I would not find that sermon fostering hate and fear of any group, be they atheist or Muslim or Buddhist or pagan.
You may be surprised to learn that most Sunday mornings I end up eating breakfast in front of the tube watching Joel Osteen. I would hope that your sermons are more like the recent sermons I've seen from him...being kind; being true to yourself; being merciful. Positives rather than negatives.
I flip around to other Sunday tv sermons and see so much hate and so much is political in nature thinly veiled in Bible-speak...and some not so thinly veiled but overt "Adult Bible school" that is nothing but politics.
Originally posted by Seagoon
Today, I live, think, feel, and act in manner about as profoundly different from my prior way of life as it is possible to get, and all that not because of any campaign of rigorous self-improvement, and certainly not because of a craven fear of damnation, but because of the kind of heart surgery that only God can effect.
I'm glad you found a way for you to become self actualized and that it works for you. Understand that out of 300million Americans, not all will find "salvation" from the detestable behaviors they exhibit through religion. Some will find another way and another heart surgeon. And I hope that is OK with you and that you understand that their way is no less important than your way...it is just different.
