Author Topic: Atheists Least Trusted  (Read 6341 times)

Offline wrag

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« Reply #60 on: March 26, 2006, 05:17:16 AM »
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Originally posted by Timofei
"Liberalism is an ideology, philosophy, political tradition, and current of political thought, which holds liberty as the primary political value. Broadly speaking, liberalism seeks a society characterized by freedom of thought for individuals, limitations on the power of government and religion (and sometimes corporations), the rule of law, the free exchange of ideas, a market economy that supports private enterprise, and a system of government that is transparent. This form of government favors liberal democracy with open and fair elections, where all citizens have equal rights by law, and an equal opportunity to succeed"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism

Yep, if atheism=liberalism, count me as an atheist.


While Wiki may say that is the meaning IMHO that has very sadly changed.

Sorry..............

Todays Liberal is far closer to communism then what the original liberal believed.  The party or meaning of the word liberal was pretty much taken over in the 50s and 60s by NON-liberals that talked the talk but DON'T walk the walk IMHO.

You want real liberals perhaps you should look at the Liberaterioans (hmm for some reason the correct spelling always escapes me)

NO i'm not a conservative.  NO i'm not a republican, or a democrate.
It's been said we have three brains, one cobbled on top of the next. The stem is first, the reptilian brain; then the mammalian cerebellum; finally the over developed cerebral cortex.  They don't work together in awfully good harmony - hence ax murders, mobs, and socialism.

Offline Thrawn

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« Reply #61 on: March 26, 2006, 06:59:31 AM »
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Originally posted by bj229r
What I will never manage to grasp is the utter disdain that so many athiests have for Christians--ever see those car emblems with the Darwin sign inside the fish? WHAT possible threat could these peeps see from Christians that they feel they must insult their belief system?



Some Christians are trying to get laws passed that would take away freedom from the athiests and/or agnostics, and also try to make science classes teach Christian beliefs instead of what science has demostrated to be the most accurate explanation for the origin of species.  Of course there's a threat, not only a theat but a threat that in some cases is being realised.

Offline crowMAW

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« Reply #62 on: March 26, 2006, 08:32:53 AM »
Seagoon...as usual a very thoughtful reply.  Please allow me to come back to it after if have a bit of breakfast.

Quote
Originally posted by bj229r
What I will never manage to grasp is the utter disdain that so many athiests have for Christians--ever see those car emblems with the Darwin sign inside the fish? WHAT possible threat could these peeps see from Christians that they feel they must insult their belief system? Christians are made fun of in the press, in movies, tv shows... if they are such utter idiots for having such an outdated, obsolete belief system, why are they important enough worry about, and what the F does it matter what they think?


I can give you some history on that.  A lot of the behaviors atheists exibit towards theists are reactionary.  Theists pass an unconstitutional law...non-theists sue; etc.

Christians began placing fish on their cars as a means to identify themselves while driving (kinda like wearing a cross as jewlery).  Non-theists got the idea..."hey, lets take the fish and stick legs on it and put "DARWIN" in it so we can identify each other as non-theists."  Well, the Christian--slightly irritated by this hijack of their symbol--retaliated with the fish with "TRUTH" in it.  So non-theists fired back with the Darwin fish eating the "TRUTH" fish.  Now I see Christians with "TRUTH" fish eating "DARWIN" fish.  But that seems to be the end of that.

Now what I find interesting is how threatened Christians seem to be by the Darwin fish.  I don't have one on my car...I have a nice car and I don't want it to be vandalized.  That's right...vandalized.  My ex had a beater when started dating and stuck a Darwin fish on it.  She had that thing ripped off the car several times (and usually just left on the ground).  Once she had it taken off, broken in pieces and her rear window bashed in...where were those Christians' moral compass'?

Offline Jackal1

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« Reply #63 on: March 26, 2006, 09:15:13 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by crowMAW

Now what I find interesting is how threatened Christians seem to be by the Darwin fish.  I don't have one on my car...I have a nice car and I don't want it to be vandalized.  That's right...vandalized.  My ex had a beater when started dating and stuck a Darwin fish on it.  She had that thing ripped off the car several times (and usually just left on the ground).  Once she had it taken off, broken in pieces and her rear window bashed in...where were those Christians' moral compass'?


So....Am I  assuming correctly that you tracked the vandal down and he/she confessed immediatley.........to being a Christain?
I`ve had a lot of stuff vandalized and really never gave a thought to whether the vandal was Christian, aetheist or whatever. One in particular didn`t have a chance to confess anything. He was too busy eating a baseball bat. :)
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #64 on: March 26, 2006, 09:37:39 AM »
chairboy... your top ten list is pretty dumb..

first of all... we are not talking about fundamenatalist christians... and, even if we were... it would be fair to say that a religion that slaughters people today is "fundamentaly" different than one that killed people a thousand years ago when... killing people was all the rage for any offence.

I am not a christian or a religious person in any way...  I think chair and others let their anger at christians and their liberal agenda get in the way of thinking...

athiests are simply dishonest and stupid... to compare rocks on the moon with something so far beyond our comprehension as the beggining of all things.... that is  again..... dishonest and stupid.

So chair... why do you do good deeds?  you have no fear of eternal life or the scorn of a god?   perhaps you do them to gain an advantage?  If you tell people and show people what a great guy you are then you will gain something....some advantage?  

I have allways felt the best about myself when I did something good that no one knew about.  

again... chair... I don't care about fundamental christians or the murderous barbaric muslims.

I believe that there had to have been a supreme being but have no idea of what he is.   I base the way I live on no religions rules... If I follow the rules it is because I feel they are the correct way.   I say that there is a god but I can't prove it...  I base it soley on faith and admit as much.

I claim no science and ask no one to believe with me.   I don't get angry with athiests because of their belief any more than I get angry at the murderous muslims because of their belief..

I am mad at athiests because they are dishonest and stupid liberals not because they have faith in their religion.... I get mad at the muslims because it is a religion of killing not because they believe in some kind of god.

The preaching that religious types do at me is annoying but not dishonest... the preaching you athiests do at me is dishonest and insults my inteligence.

lazs

Offline Chairboy

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« Reply #65 on: March 26, 2006, 10:19:51 AM »
1.  Calling me liberal is rich.  I'm as liberal as you are pretty and dainty.  Nice ad hominem, though.

2.  You still haven't explained (or my tiny atheist brain hasn't understood) why atheists are dishonest.  I simply don't believe that there's a god, what's dishonest about that?
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

Offline RTR

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« Reply #66 on: March 26, 2006, 10:33:30 AM »
I'm an Athiest, and I don't trust or like any of you.

But that's okay.

RTR
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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #67 on: March 26, 2006, 10:33:47 AM »
chair... it is fine for you to not believe that there is a god.  It is dishonest to say that such a belief is anything but a religion in itself.   It is stupid to dismiss the possibility of a god with what is all around you and the total absence of any other explanation... it is probly normal to claim to not know what form god takes.

It does seem that you have a dishonest hatred for christianity tho.... dishonest in that you will talk about what the people in it did a thousand years ago (even tho kings and local politicians did exactly the same and all people back then lived with death as the normal sentance for any crime real or imagined religion or not).

I can't think that you are stupid.... so.... You must be dishonest.   That is fine... your dishonety doesn't harm me.... but.... it is insulting.   You "preach" your religion of athiesm at me/us all the time on this board and it is simply insulting.   I can't believe that you would think I/we wouldn't see right through it.  sooooo.... it becomes insulting.

Now... if you see some religions as a personal threat.... I could understand that.... any religion that says "you are with us or we kill you" for instance.... is one that I see as a personal threat... most of em were like that in ancient times.... one still is.

Another example is not being mormon in salt lake city... that is a threat but... not to me... I don't want to live there and can't see the mormons every getting enough power to have any real control over me..... If that were to happen.... hell.... I would join ya and we could fight em.

I like my religions like I like my governments.... weak and broke.

A weak and broke government/religion is your friend... a powerful and well funded government/religion is your enemy.

lazs

lazs

Offline Chairboy

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« Reply #68 on: March 26, 2006, 10:41:02 AM »
Based on your last few sentences, we agree totally (weak government/religion) but the rest of your post is some sort of weird screed about me being dishonest and 'hating christians'.  Can you make up your mind?  I don't hate christians, but I'm not going to bow down before them and imbue their superstitions with some sort of mystical respect.  The moon argument is pretty straightforward in this regard, even if you claim not to understand it.  Just because someone else might believe that the moon is made of cheese doesn't mean that I must respect their viewpoint as being equally as plausible as my own.

Atheism isn't a 'religion' in the sense that I assertively believe in the non-existance of gods.  It's just me not happening to believe that god(s) exist.  There's a distinction there.  It's subtle, but it's there.  If you don't believe in Santa Claus, does that mean you're part of an anti-santa religion?

BTW, people should not fear the government, the government should fear the people.  You might find V for Vendetta interesting.
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #69 on: March 26, 2006, 11:04:13 AM »
chair... the moon arguement is silly.   It takes easily understandable science and trys to point toward ancient religious superstition thereby, supossedly tainting the belief that things that science can never understand are in the same vein.

No science ever can explain how it all started...  

What religions are making you bow down before them?

Maybe that is the crux here... Tell me who these evil and all powerful religious people are and I will join you in your fight (so long as I don't have to join your religion of athiesm).

Believing the moon is made of cheese is harmless enough.... I have friends who have seen spacecraft and aliens... maybe they have... who cares?  I know people who think that man is destroying the planet with global warming that will destroy the planet in ten years yet they travel around looking at "historical things" on airliners....  

There is enough doom and gloom to go around ever since I was born.... certainly enough that I don't have time to worry about a few christians or alien worshipers.

lazs

Offline Chairboy

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« Reply #70 on: March 26, 2006, 11:23:26 AM »
Lazs, everytime a law based on religion is passed, you are affected, whether you know it or not.  Most obscenity laws, for instance.  How about laws regarding consensual sex between adults?  There are states in the union where oral sex is outlawd under sodomy statutes.  

When your tax dollars go to religion, there's another place where the theists are taking choice away from you.  When our children can't be taught the scientific theory of evolution (you give lip service to science in your last post, what do you tihnk of the evolution debate in the schools?), that hurts all of us.  When our kids cannot be taught that the universe is billions of years old because christians think that's "insensitive" to their religion, you're affected.  Next time you go under the knife for surgery, do you want it to be by someone who believes that their actions are unimportant and that "god's will will prevail", or do you want a doctor who will fight any complication so that you come out alive on the other end of the operation?

Basically, I'm saying that if you think that you're unaffected by the legislation that theists pass every week, you're not thinking things through.

To come back to the original post, the idea that someone would be untrusted specifically because they're atheist is just another step in the long road towards establishing a theocracy.  First, discredit anyone who might disagree, then you're on the home stretch.
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

Offline xNOVAx

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Re: Atheists Least Trusted
« Reply #71 on: March 26, 2006, 11:28:36 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by crowMAW
I understand that by Christian dogma, I'm not going to Heaven...that is my problem


What other people think is none of your business so this is not 'your' problem.

Yes this is a widely accepted view, but just because 'they' say so doesnt mean it holds any weight of truth.

I have a question for Christians. Who holds the authority? The church? The bible? (Keep in mind this book has been translated and re-written hundreds of times over the last 2000 years. Ever played the game telephone? Thats the Bible IMO) Do YOU hold authority over non-christians? Give me a reason why you think this as well so I can laugh at it.

Nobody knows anything more than anyone else does. THAT is the only truth when it comes to anything of the religious nature.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2006, 11:31:04 AM by xNOVAx »


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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #72 on: March 26, 2006, 11:37:50 AM »
facinating debate...   first of all.... obcenity laws that are not for the sole purpose of protecting children are silly.   Just as "hate speech" laws from the left are silly.

I believe that any theory out there should be taught in school and that they should all be taught with the stipulation that they are all simply a theory including evolution and creativism.

Let's face it...  kids graduating from high school will have much less use for long hours spent on debating the various creation theories than they will for some time spent learning algebra or chemnistry.

If they want to get into genetics or philosophy in college...  that is the time.

I much more fear the dumbing down of all children because of public schools meddling agendas than I do some kid getting a good education with a little religion (that he can ignore later) thrown in.   Lack of vouchers is more dangerous than religion.

I would not be operated on by someone who you describe... I would not have them do anything but make change for me at a 7/11  I believe we have safeguards that keep them from killing me on the table.

I see nothing that is a threat to me from christians at this point...  I would ask you to research how many people had their homes broke into and were arested for sex crimes that religious people impossed on us.   Public lewdity is much different I think you would agree?

The original post is that I don't trust athiests.... How can I?  their basic religion is dishonest.   Right back where we started.

lazs

Offline Chairboy

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« Reply #73 on: March 26, 2006, 11:39:39 AM »
You still haven't explained why atheism is less honest than christianity.
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #74 on: March 26, 2006, 11:47:12 AM »
christans admit their faith.... athiests do not.   both beliefs are based on faith...

can you guess which one of the above is being honest and which is not?

lazs