Author Topic: Atheists Least Trusted (Read 6992 times)

Chairboy · « **Reply #75 on:** March 26, 2006, 11:50:41 AM »

Lazs: Answer the Santa Claus question please. Am I dishonest for not believing in Santa Claus? If the answer is no, then please apply that to me not believing in god.

There is no dichotomy.

lazs2 · « **Reply #76 on:** March 26, 2006, 12:07:23 PM »

ok... it is simple.... santa claus is, you must admit, a very much simpler character. He did not create the universe as we know it... he came about in much more modern times and has origins we can trace.

He is not a very good example but... say some character were discovered that did a lot (not all) of the things santa does.... would that make you wrong for not believing in him?

No.... but it would make you wrong for saying it was impossible.

What of aliens? bigfoot? well... maybe aliens is a better example...

every culture has had a god... a supreme being.. not many have had a santa.

prayer has caused postitive results in healing... many have felt close to god in times of duress or near death. It is a universal belief.

back to aliens... most cultures have a belief in aliens from way back....

What proof do we have? NONE.

Do you believe aliens are possible and if not..... why not? If you do.... what proof do you have?

lazs

Chairboy · « **Reply #77 on:** March 26, 2006, 12:11:39 PM »

Find me an equivalent of Drakes Equation for the existance of god and we'll talk.

Why do you keep bringing aliens and bigfoot into the discussion anyhow?

I just don't believe there's a god, and I don't see why my lack of belief is somehow dishonest while a believe in superstition gets a free pass in your book.

Hangtime · « **Reply #78 on:** March 26, 2006, 12:12:11 PM »

Ladies and Gentlemen, the driving force behind Catholicism, wow, Cardinal Glick!

Cardinal Glick: Thank you, thank you, thank you. Now we all know how the majority and the media in this country view the Catholic church. They think of us as a passe, archaic institution. People find the Bible obtuse... even hokey. Now in an effort to disprove all that the church has appointed this year as a time of renewal... both of faith and of style. For example, the crucifix. While it has been a time honored symbol of our faith, Holy Mother Church has decided to retire this highly recognizable, yet wholly depressing image of our Lord crucified. Christ didn't come to Earth to give us the willies... He came to help us out. He was a booster. And it is with that take on our Lord in mind that we've come up with a new, more inspiring sigil. So it is with great pleasure that I present you with the first of many revamps the "Catholicism WOW. " campaign will unveil over the next year. I give you... The Buddy Christ. Now that's not the sanctioned term we're using for the symbol, just something we've been kicking around the office, but look at it. Doesn't it... pop? Buddy Christ...

xNOVAx · « **Reply #79 on:** March 26, 2006, 12:16:06 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
Do you believe aliens are possible and if not..... why not? If you do.... what proof do you have?

lazs

I hate to jump in like this, but lazs, are you aware that we have discovered close to 200 planets orbiting other stars in our near proximity? did you know that there are aprox. 400 BILLION stars in our galaxy alone, half of which we cannot see. Did you know that there is an estimated 400 billion galaxys in the known universe? Did you know what one light year is about 12 trillion miles, and the closest star to us other than our own Sun is about 4 light years away? The farthest galaxy we can see is about 14 billion light years away from our own. Are you so dense to claim we are the only life in the universe? I realize this is a matter of faith at this point, but weigh the facts..

lazs2 · « **Reply #80 on:** March 26, 2006, 12:22:28 PM »

ok.... chair... why do I bring aliens and bigfoot into the conversation? you ask me this after bringing santa into it?

I have no problem with you saying that you don't believe there is a god.... I have a problem with you saying that it is not possible and that you know that because.... because.... of faith.

neither of us gets a "free pass" the only one who gets a "free pass" is the agnostic.

The agnostic just plain doesn't know... he realizes that he has no personal faith to draw on so takes a "wait and see" position.

The theist knows there is no proof for god but sees everything around him as proof. When cornered he says that yes, he has no proof but that is just what he believes.

The athiest says... That there is no god. he says so based on faith but.... he claims that in everything else in life.... he is a scientist and agnostic.... simpy not taking a stance till more proof is in.

If a man were an athiest but admited that there were no science or logic involved in his belief and that it was soley faith based..then.....

I suppose that rare form of athiest would not be "dishonest". But.... he would have to admit that his athiesm was in fact... a religion.

lazs

lazs2 · « **Reply #81 on:** March 26, 2006, 12:25:27 PM »

xnov... thank you for proving my point... we have no proof that their are aliens but it seem impossible that there aren't.

you admit that your belief in aliens is based soley on faith tho. Perhaps some of the people who claim to have seen them.... really have?

To claim that they are impossible because we have no proof takes a kind of faith too don't you suppose?

lazs

Chairboy · « **Reply #82 on:** March 26, 2006, 12:26:15 PM »

So you're going to stick with your earlier statement to the effect of "I'm not sure there's no Santa Claus"?

I guess that does more for my argument than anything I could say.

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #83 on:** March 26, 2006, 12:28:24 PM »

I ran over my dogma with my karma.

xNOVAx · « **Reply #84 on:** March 26, 2006, 12:29:54 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
xnov... thank you for proving my point... we have no proof that their are aliens but it seem impossible that there aren't.

you admit that your belief in aliens is based soley on faith tho. Perhaps some of the people who claim to have seen them.... really have?

To claim that they are impossible because we have no proof takes a kind of faith too don't you suppose?

lazs

Yes but its faith based on conditional evidence, religion has no such evidence and takes blind faith..

lazs2 · « **Reply #85 on:** March 26, 2006, 12:35:06 PM »

"conditional evidence"? how so? there are countless planets so some of em HAVE to have life on em? LOL.... that is like saying that there is a limiteless univese that is beyond our comprehension so there had to have been a supreme being.

I am agnostic on aliens but lean toward there existing..

Soo.... we can clear this all up pretty simply.... you athiests....

Do you say that.... You believe that there is no god but that you do not say that it is impossible for there to be one?

lazs

Hangtime · « **Reply #86 on:** March 26, 2006, 12:41:15 PM »

Since the humor tack seems to have fallen flat, allow me to interject a lil clear vison into the core debate.. 'can atheists be trusted'.

Fact is I distrust religionists. The reason why is that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so, and will follow it by suppressing opposition, subverting all education to seize early the minds of the young, and by killing, locking up, or driving underground all heretics.

That's an established historical fact, repeated down through history.

Now, if 'atheists' control the political landscape, they drive underground religionists, persecute the church and it's agents and attempt to obtain exactly the opposite stance. Also not good.

Agnosticisim has a balance... it's safe to stay on the fence, they neither condem nor condone religionists. They just prefer they conduct their rituals in such a way as to not deny any free thinkers rights of passage across their patch of moral morasses... respect for all; and judgement of worth based on actions regardless of religious prefrences is logical.

In a direct 'atheism vs religionist' confrontation, the agnosticist will be forced to side with the atheist, right up to the point where the atheiest demands the exclusion of the religionist from society... then he's got a new adversary; and a new ally.

Proof.. or get the hell outta the drivers seat.

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #87 on:** March 26, 2006, 12:42:26 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
"conditional evidence"? how so? there are countless planets so some of em HAVE to have life on em? LOL.... that is like saying that there is a limiteless univese that is beyond our comprehension so there had to have been a supreme being.

I am agnostic on aliens but lean toward there existing..

Soo.... we can clear this all up pretty simply.... you athiests....

Do you say that.... You believe that there is no god but that you do not say that it is impossible for there to be one?

lazs

1. Life exists in the universe, it exists here.

2. Therefore, given the correct conditions, life can exist.

3. If the odds for correct conditions existing is 6.28 x 10e45 to one, there are enough stars in the universe for those conditions to be common. multiply the odds by several billion, and there are still enough stars.

4. Therefore it is reasonable to believe that life exists (or has existed)elsewhere.

You cannot make the same reasonable argument for the existance of a diety.

xNOVAx · « **Reply #88 on:** March 26, 2006, 12:44:02 PM »

I'm not an athiest, im not agnostic in the full sense of the word, I do not claim myself to any one specific religion. I do however believe in some form of a supreme power for the sole fact that the universe exists and is perceived by my consciousness. Not because a religion says one exists.

J_A_B · « **Reply #89 on:** March 26, 2006, 12:46:59 PM »

"So you're going to stick with your earlier statement to the effect of 'I'm not sure there's no Santa Claus'?"

Didn't I see that guy at the shopping mall a few months ago?

At any rate, St. Nicholas was certainly a real person, who formed the basis for what became a popular children's myth. Jesus Christ was also certainly a real person, who formed the basis for....hmm, are we seeing a trend here?

The thing about religion is anyone can make one up. Heck, my sister started her own religion (seriously!). I could make up something like, say, aliens flew to this planet in rocket-powered DC-8's and placed their souls into human bodies and sure enough, some people somewhere (preferably people with lots of cash) would believe it.

In response to Holden's logic: While lack of observation does nothing to prove the existance of something, it doesn't disprove it either. Those wierd fangly fishes lived in the Challenger deep way before we were aware of the possibility of their existance.

J_A_B