Napster.... Freedom or Fraud?

[Kieren]

If you are downloading material you haven't paid for and the rightful owner hasn't given away, it is theft. It can't be much clearer than that.

People routinely burn CD's and distribute them nowadays, so we don't think much about it, but the fact does remain if the record companies want to protect their interests they have every right to do so.

[StSanta]

Those idiots have gotten away with quelling and destroying music in the 90's and 2000, and robbing us at the same time.

Death to the record industry. Use all means necessary.



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Baron Claus "StSanta" Von Ribbentroppen
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"

"I don't necessarily agree with everything I think." - A. Eldritch

[Staga]

Santas got a good point there:

Not all gun owners are killers and not all Napster users are thefts.

If you shut down napster what goes down next, your right to own gun maybe?  

Maybe problem is that Napster is not made by huge multinational company and it doesn't have a powerfull back-up like NRA?

[Mickey1992]

I feel the problem with digital theft (in this case music) is not the one guy who downloads one favorite song from 20 years ago, it's the guy who downloads a CD that was released last week and burns a copy for himself (and maybe his friends).  Although both instances are still theft.

I am no fan of record companies.  I think they have done more harm to music than good in the past half-century.  But it does not justify theft.

"If Napster goes, so should guns, because they're involved in crime."

If they're used for criminal activity, then yes.  That's the way it works now in our society.

"Instead of seeing Napster as a huge possibility/new way of marketing themselves, they see it as a threat."

Many artists use the Web/Internet as a way of marketing themselves.  Why should Napster be able to do it without their consent?

[This message has been edited by Mickey1992 (edited 01-31-2001).]

[Saintaw]

talking about music, I'm looking for mp3's of "KYUSS", they only made 2 excellent CD's and I can' find them since I moved  

[Gunthr]

I'm wondering, if downloading Mp3's from Napster is actually theft, how is it that it has been allowed to go on for so long? If the courts ruled that Napster could continue operation while the issue was debated amongst the lawyers, its seems that one could interperet the ruling as temporary permission until the issue is decided. That's how I looked at it anyway...

Gunthr

[Animal]

Nash,
This Napster thing could start a 700 posts flamewar wich I dont have the Net Stamina to follow. I already see your position in the debate and I see you stand firmly by it. I stand firmly the other way.
So we should just stand in diferent sides of the fence, scream "diddly YOU!!" at each other for a few minutes, and move on.

[AKDejaVu]

 

On the other hand, if and when Napster ever goes pay, I'm likely to subscribe. But hopefully CenterSpan does it sooner and better.

Any idea where their office is SOB?

Shameless, simply shameless

AKDejaVu

[Kieren]

This argument doesn't have a single thing to do with guns. No reason to bring that in here.

I agree with Nash, rationalize all you want, it is legally theft. After that you decide whether you do it or not.

[Gunthr]

Why isn't it being prosecuted?

[SOB]

 

Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
Shameless, simply shameless  

hehehe true, but if they pull it off and the market like's 'em SOB won't be working full time while he goes to school  

[Nash]

Hadn't heard of CenterSpan before. I found this interesting though, from thier website:

"CenterSpan Communications evolved from ThrustMaster Corporation, makers of high quality game controls. In September of 1999, the company sold its hardware business, including the ThrustMaster name, to focus exclusively on peer-to-peer communication software."

Anyways, on this Napster stuff, I'm still seeing the typical rationalizations for theft of copyrighted materials. You can say "Record Company's suck.... screw em!" Just the same as you could say "Ford sucks so I'm heading to the dealership tonight with a balaclava and a screw driver."

"Damned if I am gonna pay for their sucky way of doing business." - StSanta

You don't have to. In fact, record companies could charge $100 a cd. That's their right. How is it your right to steal if you don't like the price? How is it your right to dictate the terms? You've got nothing to do with it. Your choice is either to buy, or not to buy.

But I guess it's just music, so it's no big deal. Is that it? That's almost the same crap attitude towards musicians as those vulchers in the recording industry.

"I'm wondering, if downloading Mp3's from Napster is actually theft, how is it that it has been allowed to go on for so long?"

Because Napster was either faced with defeat, or settlement. They settled with all the record companies (I think just one is still outstanding). So they paid these record companies hundreds of millions of dollars. Probably none of which will go to the artists. Then come June or July, you will be hit with a $5.00 a month service fee for using Napster. I assume a share of THAT will go to the record companies also. And probably none of which will go to the artist.

So.... we have the record companies and Napster in bed together now. Their gonna make boatloads of money, while the people whose work -  the very thing that's being traded - will generally get screwed again like always.

I wonder how many "screw the record industry" Napster users will now say "screw Napster" and hack their way in for free there also.

[mrfish]

i like them personally

- some people think  they make good pets and all but mine were always trying to get away and there is just no way to keep the bedding from smelling like a bum.....oh wait this is napster i was looking for hamster sorry wrong thread

[StSanta]

Napster is NOT doing anything illegal. It is simply a tool, like a gun, that people can use.

The gun analogy is quite to the point and exact.

A gun is a tool that people can use. Or misuse.

So if some people misuse Napster, and Napster are banned, it follows that by the same standard, if someone misuses guns, guns are to be banned.

I've got lots of mp3's I haven't been able to get elsewhere - rare mp3's that are part of my most reasured music.

Mickey said in a reply to me:

"If they're used for criminal activity, then yes. That's the way it works now in our society."

As mentioned, Napster is a tool. The company does not pirate cd's.

"Many artists use the Web/Internet as a way of marketing themselves. Why should Napster be able to do it without their consent?"

I am talking about the record companies strategy on dealing with Napster. Instead of seeing then potential for good, the only see the potential for bad.

If anyone is robbing anyone, it's the record companies that have been screwing us for decades. I am so glad they're hurting, and hope they'll bleed for a long time.

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Baron Claus "StSanta" Von Ribbentroppen
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"

"I don't necessarily agree with everything I think." - A. Eldritch

[Boroda]

Many Russian artists like MP3 music, and understand that people who DL-ed their music in MP3 and like it will propably buy a CD or tape. Many Russian record companies license their music to MP3 sites.

99% of Russians simply can't listen to MP3 at home. Not freaks like me who have a portable MP3-CD player in their pocket    Lenoxx MP-786 is the funniest toy I got last year, and only for $99. Accumulators work only for 3-4 hours, but it's enough for my daily subway ride  

I use Napster to get some inteesting music I can't find on CDs here without paying $30+ per disk. Last DLs: It's a Beautiful Day, Kinks "Arthur" (strange - but Kinks are extemely rare in Russia), Leaf Hound, Moby Grape, Focus, early Pink Floyd bootlegs, etc.

Also please note that an average audio-CD costs 80 rubles, less then $3. It includes Russian artists and so-called "licensed" CDs of foreign artists, that are no doubt pirated - but why should I refuse to buy a Deep Purple "In Rock Anniversary Edition" with 10-pages book included for $3 in favour of the same thing in a foreign music store on the same street for $18?..

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With respect,
    Pavel Pavlov,
    Commissar 25th IAP WB VVS