Murdr,
One needs a complete data on the types and configurations of the plane tested, in order to compare it to the game. The type of plane teste, and some other parameters. For a loose comparison, here are the figures I got for a quick test for two P-38s, in turn.
-Parameters-
* 75% fuel, clean configuration
* 1k alt (minimal difference between TAS and IAS)
* Power Off stalls during level flight
* props feathered
* maintain manual control so the climbrate indicator holds 0
variance in climb/sink contained under +/- 50 ft at a given time
* when a plane can no longer hold the "0" point, and gives away
with sudden fall of the pitch, that point is considered 'stall'
-Planes-
P-38G
- no flaps: 95mph
- full flaps+gear: 72mph
P-38J
- no flaps: 110mph
- full flaps+gear: 78mph
The impending signs of stall, and the "mush", is all as described in the report. The stall warning starts to get louder, the plane shakes, and the climbrate indicator cannot hold "0" any longer. The pitch starts to drop suddenly, and as if some magic is occuring, the planes just stops buffeting and mushes over despite elevator input via stick. No tendency to spin.
When left alone at clean configuration the plane gains speed, the stick input comes alive, and the plane recovers. Unfortunately, with the gears out and flaps at landing position, Power Off stalls were unrecoverable naturally - probably due to the fact that the plane had no thrust at all and mega drag hanging under it.
....
The real problem where people seem to be always disagreeing about, is what might happen at accelerated stalls..
Take into consideration that every one of those accounts have some very
specific conditions on the point that the P-38 will refuse to stall out violently. Meskimen's account for example, specifically relies on a situation where the flaps are momentarily deployed and then quickly tucked back in - indicating an 'instantaenous turn' rather than a steady and continuous turn. This, is possible with AH2 P-38s.
The descriptions of the plane's inherent resistance to spins, is associated with stalls during level (essentially) level flight, test prcedure conditions with either Power On or Off. Tony Levier himself, in the very account you've quoted, clarifies;
One of the finest characteristics of the '38 is the accelerated stall. Such stalls, accompanied by normal buffeting, occur on any ship when the angle of attack is increased to the point that the airflow over the wing becomes turbulent.
By clarifying that it happens to 'any ship' - he also implies it DOES happen to the P-38 indeed. Also note that he clear mentions accelerated stalls separately, apart from stalls during level flight.
Also - look at the last account of McGuire's that you were kind enough to post for me;
I was on the deck, in a vertical bank, the airspeed under 90 mph, and the yoke was bucking and shuddering in my hands. That turn was nothing more nor less than a controlled stall.
This, is the part which is described as 'buffeting effect' in AH2, and indeed, even in the game, you can maintain that status for quite a long time without snapping over. If it were an AH2 Fw190 for example, the plane will just instantly flick over to its left side when the buffet starts to show. The real question here is, what happenes if you go even over that?
Will the P-38 still refuse to spin out of control?
In real life controlling the planes were a much heavier burden than the troubles we go through with a small joystick. Pulling the stick aroundto start turning the plane upto Gs itself required some amount of strength and control. When the plane begins to stall, the 'buffeting' manifests in your hand, as the stick starts to vibrate and shake, indicating a stalled status.
My take is that this is usually more than enough motivation to let the pilot ease off on the stick and return to controlled flight. In AH2, every single game pilot walks over that line routinely. Yes, the AH2 P-38 will dip one wing and fall under a spin during a turn. But my take is that this is a result of going over the 'controlled' status of the plane and pushing the stall even further upto a point of no return - which, quite contrarily, was something even the best of pilots would rarely venture into, and often payed price with death when they did so.
In other words, when you take up a P-38, and go into a sharp left turn, the plane shakes around. This is the point where McGuire, in the above account, already considered as a stalled status which he claims could control(and also the point where many single engine fighters would become highly sensitive and susceptible to falling under a 'snap roll' - which, is also true in AH2). This tendency is also observed in AH2 - keep a gentle coordination of the controls, and the P-38 will continue to turn despite the buffeting.
However, the point where the game pilots complain about that the P-38 will spin, IMO, is actually a point beyond the controllable stall which McGuire above boasts that he had no problem with. He says he pulled enough lead to get a shot in, but that does not necessarily mean that he just kept on pulling the stick harder and harder all through the buffeting.
So, what would have happened, if McGuire pulled the stick even harder despite the "yoke bucking and shuddering in his hands"? I say the P-38 would have spinned to one side and crashed, like any other plane. Which ironically and ultimately, killed McGuire on his last mission.
To sum it up even shorter, I think the reason the AH2 P-38 'snaps' to one side, despite its famous reputation for being resistant to violent stalls, is just because game pilots would frequently step over the line which should never have been crossed, torque or no torque. Like bozon said some time ago, if normal flow is cut off from the plane then anything can happen.
Remember, in real life the 'buffeting' itself, would have been something scary enough to motivate the pilot to back off on the controls. In AH2, we just ride the buffeting for fun - something IMO, only a seasoned expert would ever do in real life. And only when we go over that line, and the plane goes out of control, do we consider it as a 'stall' - despite the fact in real life, that would be a point which would have been considered something way beyond a normal, accelerated stall.
That being said, I'd not object if the P-38 pilots wanted a little more resistance to the 'roll' experienced at the point where the plane is already buffeting. When I tested the plane out, if started a turn and gently tightened it, the plane would start buffeting at some point (the 'McGuire point' as explained in Murdr's quoted account). If I pull a little bit even further than that, the plane would want to spin, just like any plane.
Given that the P-38 was especially notorious for its resistance and stability against spinning tendencies, I'd say it won't be too bad if the P-38 could resist a little more stck input and harder buffeting, before it 'snapped'.
