toolshedders and Furballers, you both need each other.

[B@tfinkV]

capturing bases starts the biggest furballs.


furballs make other parts of the map easy to milk run.










can't we co-exist.

[Hoarach]

Nope.  Its the base taking toolshedders that ruin the furballs.

[B@tfinkV]

then you're not doing your duty as a furballer to make your fights turn good.




Our squadron is now at 31/32 players, we are a horde unless we have some serious opposition when  the turnout is good.



often we will plan a mission, get some knights to fly buffs and goon, and then fill out the escort spots. After 20 mins of 'toolshedding' we usually have captured a base and/or stirred up a hornet's nest of spits and niks to start a furball with.


you just got to pick your target well, for instance if a stale mate in a large furball has arisen as the captures start in ernest, you fly from a few sectors away, and make a move on the enemies fields in the opposing sectors for them.









oh, I'm sorry, did you (furballers) think you just get to log in and have the Perfect Fight available everytime without any effort?

[Ghosth]

Emmm batfink, yes, thats exactly what they want.

[lazs2]

actualy batty... you are wrong..  The best furballs are between fields not at em.

The best fights are at the closest fields... The lightbulb glass like CV's are the very best fights when they are close to a field (till a griefer sinks it).

fairly close fields are next  on the list..  if the fight is close enough to somewhere in the middle is the very best... furballers from either side have a chance of making it back or a ditch when they run out of ammo or fuel or major parts.

seriously... the game does need the fighter guys.... finding a use for fluffers is a constant, loosing battle.  

So... nope.... don't need ya.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

[B@tfinkV]

you are not contradicting me, and you're of course correct about where to find fur.


sometimes there is a lack or fur, at these times it is our duty as furballers to create fur.


so you take a base is backed up by a carrier, instantly you have a CV vs Base furball with little more to fly than a few seconds to the action.



If there is already fur, then join it, if not, Start a fight by the mundane mishuns, and at the very least you get a furball out of a failed mishun.


 think the furball you just joined as you log injust appeared out of thin air as soon as the map was loaded? not a chance, they were built up through hours of constant competitive fighting on all levels from GVs to furballs.

[lazs2]

wrong... the best furballs go on for hours and the only people there are furballers.... the fun is not ruined till some griefer notices that there is a lot of activity there and goes and kills one sides FH's and moves on looking for somewhere else to ruin a fight..

No "missunz" were needed.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

[Pooface]

have to say lazs is right:O

the best furballs have no buffs, just good sticks in fighters. and they usually start with just fighters, 2 or 3 flying together, and being met by 2 or 3 enemy fighters. then it gets built on, and all the good sticks go there looking for a decent fight. the toolshedders see this huge thing, and say, wow, lets go kill the fighter hangars so out guys can take that base!!!


tats the big problem, whenever the two breeds meet it turns into a flame war which is lame. the thing is, the furballers dont give a s*** what the toolshed guys do, as long as it doesnt ruin a good fight, but the 'win the war' types dont like furballers fighting, they want them to take the bases, they see that as the main objective of the game.






let me say this for the toolshedders once, this game may revolve around base taking in the main arena, but that is not the object of the game, the object is aerial combat. it was never meant to be a race to win 25 perks. if you play this game for that, why bother?

[B@tfinkV]

you poor saps think its about what and who is in the furball.


this thread is about how they start not the contents.


have you ever started a furball, i know i have.


and lazs its 'mishuns' not missunz

[Pooface]

Originally posted by B@tfinkV
you poor saps think it about what and who is in the furball.


this thread is about how they start not the contents.


have you ever started a furball, i know i have.

yup, with a fighter sweep, never with bombers. toolshedders ruin furballs 99% of the time. there are a few guys out there that actually love using furballs as cover to sneak bases, which is ok i guess. still annyoing that the fight gets stomped on, but, nothing i can do about it really

[DoKGonZo]

Batfink, you're making too much sense, you clearly don't belong in this discussion.


But let's look at this in a different way. We can probably see who "belongs" in the MA by looking at what HT built into the MA, and who it serves:

- Lots of bases ... great for both, gives furballers lots of places to find fights, gives toolshedders lots to bomb.

- Lots of fighter planes ... great for both, especially since most can carry bombs.

- Lots of bomber planes ... furballers don't need 'em, want 'em, or use 'em.

- Strategic (HQ, ...) and tactical (ord, ...) structures ... furballers don't care about these things, toolshedders base their missions on killing 'em.

- Radar ... useful to both sides, though furballers only really need bar-dar.

- A base capture system including troop carriers on land-sea-air, paratroopers, and the AI to move the troopers. Furballers could care less.

- Ordinance (bombs, rockets) ... of no practical use to a Furballer at all.

- GV's ... Ostie is used extensively by the King of the Furballers (Zazen), but otherwise a GV only exists to kill things on the ground, so of no use to Furballers. Toolshedders can use them in concert with an air attack to capture a base.

- "The War" ... the primary theme of the MA ... Furballers by their own admission don't care about it and it only peripherally serves their goal when a front stalls out and creates a furball.

- Fighter Town ... put in just for Furballers ... 3 fields on one map only.

- Missions ... Furballers don't need 'em or want 'em, useful to toolshedders to assemble and organize attacks to win The War.

- Bomber formations (and the flight logic to control the drones) ... only useful to Furballers in that it's three kills, but otherwise of no value to them. Provides Toolshedders with higher survivability for missions.


Well ... golly gee, Batman ... HT sure seems to have put a lot of effort into adding things for the toolshedders. The question of "who needs who?" gets kind of interesting if you look at it from the perspective of what the MA apparently was built for.

[lazs2]

gonzo... you have confused "need" with making available.

The strat stuff is there for those who like it but... that in no way speaks to the original premise which is simply...

wrong.

The fluffers could go away and the furballers would not be affected except in a positive way.... furballers in no way need fluffs in the game.

Now, let's turn it around.... the oppossite is not true.   The game would be nothing without the furballers and fighters.   Who ya gonna greif then?  other fluffers? LOL.

Nope... batties original premise is wrong.. we do not "need each other"  the fluffers need us but we don't need them.

Nothing you or he has said contradicts that.

Now... back to the difference in "need" and makeing available...  The company needs to get as large a revenue base as possible.... that means bringing in as many mouse weilding fluffers as the game can bear...  If, said mouse wielding fluffers can't feel like they are being noticed and "affecting the game".....

They won't do it.    The balancing act is not about fighters vs fluffs.... it is about balancing the need to have the revenue of fluffer griefers against ruining the game for too many people.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

[hubsonfire]

Cool, so all I have to do to enjoy my sort of fun is...

play the game someone else considers fun?


Gee, here's an original troll. Maybe you can get some trainers to come in an flame us, then someone with a bbs shades account with "bks" in it can chime in with something stupid.

Maybe, just maybe, it'll turn into a worthwhile thread.

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by lazs2
gonzo... you have confused "need" with making available.

...

No ... I think you need to look at this in terms of if you'd never seen the game before. That is, purely objectively. Which is to say, look at the MA in terms of how it functions and who best makes that machine operate. But forget it ... it's not worth arguing.


Looking at it from your angle, neither side really needs each other at all. The folks who want to fly missions would find opposition from people who want to defend bases regardless of Furballers. And Furballers don't give a damn about a base being taken other than it means the fight needs to relocate.

So if the community is as fractured as you say, we have two distinct games being played.

Which brings us to a problem of perception. I think a lot more players are into "the war" than are into the furball - this BBS is not an accurate demographic, as we all know. Compounding that, the furball lobby has chosen a spokesperson (or had one chosen for them) who advocates cheating as "justified" in order to get your/his way. Which takes a way a lot of your credability, and a lot of willingness from the other camp to work with you towards a solution. That's just basic human dynamics.

I'm being completely honest when I say that I would have gladly told anyone about to drop bombs on FT to stop (with my usual subtle use of metaphor) until this mindset that it's ok to lie and cheat and spy to get your way started up on the Furballer side of the fence. Why should I do the honorable thing to help people who will show me no honor in return? Those who know me, know I am dead serious about this.


The only solution I can see is that every map needs a FT. With no GV, no troops, no ord, no bombers, and indestructable hangars. There will always be "a way" to capture FT if enough people are willing to spend enough time coping with logistics, but these settings would make it more trouble than its worth.

[B@tfinkV]

without toolshedders my game (as a dedicated lover of fur) would suffer some serious negatives.

- The battle front would be a static, boring, uniform nomans land. cherry pickers and BzNers running up and down a line of very close proximity furballs as the vulchers fly even higher to swoop on the same bases week after week.

- The different terrain flown over would be limited to a 1 or 2 sector strip between the opposing teams, very boring within a month.

- Eliminates the need for multiple maps.

- Eliminates the fantastic immersion effects of seeing 10 flights of bombers in formation, with 20 escorts hovering above. the GVs are great when i see one, i dont want to think im flying over a 2D flat painted ground, i want virtual WW2 experience not just a constant battle of free for all fighter town that becomes very worthless unless your enjoyment comes from killing as much stuff as quickly as possible without any grace or imagination.

there are probably more but i can't be bothered to keep typing.



 as a BB troll topic, this one is so stale it's turning into blue mould.