How high are $$$ now

[DiabloTX]

It's not the quest for profits that I have a problem with but the obvious need to "create" a market to get those profits.  What is not being discussed is the fact that gas is more of a utility than a commodity.  We all HAVE to have it and where else are we going to get it?  Competition?  They are all on the same page in the playbook, "Let's create a situation where they have to buy our products at a price WE dictate, no the market!"  Or better yet, let's all MERGE!  Pick your partner and dosey-do, ya'll.  

I equate it to this;  You buy a computer for whatever reason.  Now, you need an operating system to run this computer.  You really don't have much of a choice in this matter, you have Windows, Mac OS, or whatever open source OS you choose to put in it.  Well, 90% of the population isn't going to use the latter so you're basically down to 2 choices.  Ok, really only 1 but that's my point.  You DON'T have much of a choice.  If you need gas, pay up sucker, you ain't got no choice.  

This country, and most if not all developed countries, have to have gas to maintain the majority of their respective economies.  There is an inherent demand for this product, it's not like an entire country can just go, "Ok, you're price is too high, we refuse to buy your product until the price is fair."  These people need the gas to eat, pay bills, put clothes on their backs.  Ask any transportation driver or farmer or anyone that needs gasoline to make a living.  There is no where else to turn to when the oil companies are obviously, ok well maybe NOT so obviously , creating a market where they dictate the price of their product.

Capitalism =
Price fixing =

[Jackal1]

The Ma Bell syndrome I spoke of earlier.

[beet1e]

DiabloTX - I agree with what you said immediately above ^ but let's expand the discussion a little to pull in the wider world instead of just the US.

Road fuel in Europe and other countries has always been vastly more expensive than it is in the USA, but our vehicles and lifestyles have evolved with that, and we have adapted to price spikes. Here, vehicles have always needed fuel efficient engines. There ARE a number of V8 powered cars available - eg Jaguar, Mercedes Benz, Aston Martin, BMW, Rolls Royce, Bentley - and even a few V12s. But the bread and butter end of the market has always been powered by relative small 4-cylinder engines with a capacity of around 1.6 litres. That's the way it's HAD to be. Europe has never fostered a culture of buying the biggest, baddest, thirstiest monster truck you can possibly find for no tangible benefits aside of bragging rights. And yet that is pretty much what I'm seeing in the truck thread. Some of the posters in there actually BOAST about how much fuel their vehicles consume....

...which is all very well in the heady days of gas-aplenty, but as has been seen in this and other threads, there will be howls of anguish as these guys get caught with their pants down when pump prices double. In such austere times, people mysteriously discover that they don't actually need what HangTime might describe as "societally correct" vehicles (SCVs!) and find that their motoring needs can be met by a European or Japanese import.

Europe/Asia (apart from oil rich middle eastern states) have never been interested in gas guzzling monster trucks, and a much higher proportion of our fuel costs is tax. What this means is that when the price of crude rises sharply as it has done in the post Katrina period, the American pump price has doubled, whereas here in the UK the price I'm paying is up by about 30% in 2½ years. Indeed, our chancellor and future PM Gordon Brown, who is currently visiting Washington, has declared that he will not increase fuel duty at a time when it would cause hardship in light of the crude oil price rises. This announcement has softened the blow considerably. As you can see, the shock factor in the US is much higher, especially with all those 12mpg vehicles, which is partly why gas price whine threads always originate in the US.

Like it or not, oil is obsolescent. It WILL become much more expensive in the years ahead, especially as China is about to become the largest economy in the world. Now, we can all do one of two things to offset the blow:

• Continue driving 12mpg "societally correct" vehicles and whine at the cost of fuel, arguing against the "immoral" forces of capitalism that make it so expensive, and post gas price whine threads, or -
• Do something about it FFS! Drive a vehicle that is more fuel efficient - these days it doesn't have to be a slouch. Try for at least 35mpg and preferably more.

I've made my choice. I'm OK for now, but like everyone else, I firmly expect to be paying much more for fuel in the years ahead.

It's the end of oil. Time to get with the programme.

[Nilsen]

Yup beetle. Both businesses and people are used to high gas prices here and has ____probably___ been better at trimming their business logistics and lifestyles to that situation. This is one of the reasons that the negative effects of higher prices are not as severe here as it will be in the US and other places that are used to low prices.

Our government also has an option to trim the taxes to reflect higher prices. Yes, high taxes on fuel sux, but it also gives us plenty of room to manuver when prices skyrocket. I predict that economies in europe and elswere will be more competitive in the future because of this.

This also means that China will not be able to keep up the rapid growth for too much longer, and that is good news for the enviroment and prolly also for the US economy as China wont be able to keep up production at the low prices that it can now. When the Chinese economy gets even stronger, the demand for higher vages will also have an impact on them vs the rest of the world. A stronger China may actually be better for the rest of the worlds economies.

[storch]

The thing is that with the smaller vehicles you just don't have the creature comforts we are accustomed to here.  As an example we had to go pick up some equipment we need on monday and no shippers could get the part here on time from central Florida at a cost I was willing to pay.  We made a trip of it. Loaded the family which is reduced to myself, frau storch and our 16yr old son, assorted beverages and some DVDs to watch on the TV for our 12 hour round trip.  It was almost like a relaxing saturday at home with the added benefit of the flat Florida countryside to add to the trip.  No more counting dead armadillos and racoons here.  Cruising up and down US27 at 65mph while frau storch drives and storchito and I watch movies we usually don't get to watch at home.  I forgot how funny "I'm gonna git U sucka" is.  "layer cake" blows.  The only thing that truck lacks is a head and perhaps my own fuel bowser in tow.  25gals just doesn't go far enough, it really needs a second 25 gal tank.

With regard to fuel prices, it affects us all much more than just at the pump.  since everything in our economy is basically heavily petroleum dependent, it will drive inflation.  This is bad overall but for me personally and people such as myself it's fine and we quickly adjust to it.  when I receive an invitation to submit a quotation I now price the materials daily and add a fuel factor.  the quote is only valid for seven days.  I state that clearly on every proposal and many of my colleagues do the same.  It has actually been good for my business.

[Boxboy]

Originally posted by beet1e
The second sentence is correct. How can I ever forget.

I wouldn't be too disparaging towards the Middle East. It's their oil, after all, that makes it possible to drive 12mpg SUVs, should you feel so inclined. And... I would say that in the context of the oil business, which is what this thread is about, anyone talking about supplies from the Gulf would be talking about the Middle East. Of course, if you've never left texas, YMMV.

Well having worked for Gulf Oil as a young man I can tell you that all the oil in the middle east would STILL be under the sand had not the Brits and Americans formed ARAMCO and showed those nomads where it was and HOW to get it out of the ground.  Now 40 years later it is THEIR oil and so it is, but THEY have been well paid for something THEY didn't know was there or HOW to get in the beginning.

Don't worry tho Americans have been through this type of thing before and when we are all driving gas guzzling cars that run on some bio fuel that we produce here I will wait to hear the world *****ing about what we do.

[Jackal1]

Yea,  "the world" is gonna whine about what the U.S. is, has been or is going to do. That`s a given. Such as Beet in here whining in a thread about the evil U.S. in a thread about U.S. gas prices. Mostly envy I suspect.
The thing is, oil is not over as stated. Not by a long shot. There are fields that haven`t been tapped right here at home. There is new technology that hasn`t even been used yet. New ideas. New market balancing...right here in the U.S. that hasn`t even came to light yet. Hide behind a rock and watch.
I could give a rat`s patunia what someone on some fog ridden, dull, shades of gray place drives or does in general. We take care of home first. The rest can pee up a stump as far as I`m concerned. They are gonna whine one way or the other, so why bother. But one thing you also can rest assured of, when they get their butts in a crack, the U.S. is the first place they turn to for help. Go figure.

[lazs2]

urchin... I am not "whining" about anything with perhaps the exception of taxation which is the god you worship.... you seem to have never met a government tax or worthless program you didn't like so long as it made some "rich" guy pay.

Price gouging and price setting is illegal.  I have no problem with profits made legally.   I think that prices need to rise to reflect demand and supply and that they will stabilize.  I am not at all dissapointed with the system of supply and demand.

beet... the reason we make fun of you and your gas prices is because you are paying so much of your gas price in worthless and criminal socialism.  The tax is what we are laughing about not the cost of the product.

And.... when you are saying that you are slimmer than hang... does that mean just overall weight for height or are we talking body fat % here?  I mean.... how long has it been since you were able to look down and see your privates?   Do you think you are stronger and in better shape than hang or do you judge shape by weight like women do?

lazs

[ghi]

Originally posted by viper215
Being summer is almost here how hard has gas prices hit you???
Trying to see the difference in states.

Today on the gas station down the street (Mobil) 3.15for reg 3.25 for special and 3.35ish for super+. And a week ago it was all in the area of 2.90. Summers going to be hell for us. We own a boat and $$$ might be topping 4.50 perk gallon.

How hard has it hit you?

 
 Not bad ! I paied today, sunday  1.09 cad/L here in Toronto, that's 1.09 x 3.7 L/gal=4.03 CAD/gal=>divide with 1.14 (cad/usd)=====>3.53 USD/gal
 And  Canada is #1, source of oil import for U.S, but we pay always pay higer price for fuel than California:furious

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by ghi
Canada is #1, source of oil import for U.S, but we pay always pay higer price for fuel than California:furious

Talk to your tax collector

[beet1e]

Originally posted by Jackal1
That`s a given. Such as Beet in here whining in a thread about the evil U.S. in a thread about U.S. gas prices. Mostly envy I suspect.

I'm not whining, I am laughing! Even if road fuel here was as cheap as it is in the US, my total annual savings would be about $1200 - the sort of money that some guys have to pay to get more than one TV station (if you live in Concord,CA, for example).

beet... the reason we make fun of you and your gas prices is because you are paying so much of your gas price in worthless and criminal socialism. The tax is what we are laughing about not the cost of the product. - lazs

- which explains why curval laughs at you!

[Urchin]

Originally posted by lazs2
urchin... I am not "whining" about anything with perhaps the exception of taxation which is the god you worship.... you seem to have never met a government tax or worthless program you didn't like so long as it made some "rich" guy pay.

Price gouging and price setting is illegal.  I have no problem with profits made legally.   I think that prices need to rise to reflect demand and supply and that they will stabilize.  I am not at all dissapointed with the system of supply and demand.

lazs

Lazs... I think you may be a closet communist.  

Check your clothes for sickle's & hammers, on a red background.

Why is "price gouging" and "price setting" illegal?  

Are you for a free market or no?  Are you against government intervention or not?  

You seem to be full of contradictions...  maybe while you are checking for commie flags you should check for "sanitary products".. I hear vacillation is a womanly trait.  Think I heard that from you, actually.

[lazs2]

urchin... where have I vaccilated at all?  I say that price fixing is illegal.   I didn't say if I thought that it was a good law or not even.

I did say, and continue to say, that supply and demand work.

you are the big government socialist guy that thinks that more tax is the answer.

I say.... let the price of fuel be reflected by the price per barrel but take all the tax off it.

lazs

[viper215]

Originally posted by RTSigma
I still can't wait for when the middle east oil reserves go dry and we find a huge tap of oil or start diggin in Alaska.

Ho boy will there be a war about that, I gurantee. Them Middle East guys would HATE to have to get oil from us U.S. Pigs.

Cant wait for that day also.

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by beet1e
I'm not whining, I am laughing!  

Sure you are Beet. We all can see what a jovial guy you are.