F4u-u1/1d/1c/u4

[Glasses]

The F4U is one of the planes in AH that has  the tightest turning circles and it's ludicrous, that plane that was known for having very large torque effects, in AH performs like a damn Spit, the turning circles you quote are from the Kweassa post on the  F4U without flaps and with stall limiter on. In AH with Enough flaps you can out turn even 109s and spits,that's the real turning spec on the F4U in AH .

One of the most questionable models in Game, it has nothing to do with being a fanatic but with the truth, in AH it can do things it couldn't, wonder why.

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by jaxxo
please someone show me one story of a hog turning with a zeke...please

Just watch any episode of BaBa Blacksheep.



ack-ack

[mars01]

Just watch any episode of BaBa Blacksheep.

HAHAHAHA LOLH

Knock it off, I dare ya.

[Simaril]

Originally posted by Glasses
The F4U is one of the planes in AH that has  the tightest turning circles and it's ludicrous, that plane that was known for having very large torque effects, in AH performs like a damn Spit, the turning circles you quote are from the Kweassa post on the  F4U without flaps and with stall limiter on. In AH with Enough flaps you can out turn even 109s and spits,that's the real turning spec on the F4U in AH .

One of the most questionable models in Game, it has nothing to do with being a fanatic but with the truth, in AH it can do things it couldn't, wonder why.

Actually, they're with flaps out at full. heres the thread, look about 4 windows down

He extensively explained why he had stall limiter on -- to standardize the "skill" component that otherwise would have introduced an uncontrolled variable into the testing equation. IE he could have had artificially tighter circles on the planes he flew best.

Oh, and as far as measurable data -- will full flaps out, the F4U-1D was the 18th best turner, coming in behind all the spits except the XIV and even behind the "porked" luftwaffe turn demon, the Bf-110. (Speaking of planes that in AH "do things that in real life they couldnt")

It's getting really old, glasses, especially since there's no data to support your discrimination thesis. If you're so sure you're right, why dont you do a fly off between you in any "uber" american ride and, say, Furby in a spit or zeke? In fact, I'm only just learning to fight, and routinely get my spitfire's butt smacked by Creton in his porked 109 and widewing in his uber f4u -- but if you wanna take that F4U against my zeke, I'm in!

I expect, though, that I'll be hearing more whining and doing less testing -- so:

Originally stated by Sir Winston Churchill
A fanatic is someone who cannot change his mind and will not change the subject

[Glasses]

Good you're on :-)

Just watch any episode of BaBa Blacksheep.

LoL I think that's where AH got its Fm from.

[Bronk]

Let me know when this is going to happen . I'll need some time to get the popcorn popped and the beer cold.



Bronk

Edit: Ohh and glasses this isn't IL2 boards . IE when the whine has hit a certain peak they change the flight model. Have to keep 1 luftwhiner here so we dont forget.

[Schatzi]

Originally posted by Simaril
... and even behind the "porked" luftwaffe turn demon, the Bf-110. (Speaking of planes that in AH "do things that in real life they couldnt")...

Warning: highly subjective!



I found a book in my Granddads shelf. Next to a pic of a 110 (sorry, cant remeber the model) he had written a personal comment: "Was allowed to fly it once - very nimble"


Do WE really know what they *could* have done IRL? Besides, we can take risks that for a RL pilot are simply unacceptable. If we end up in a flat spin, we can say "dangit" and take off again.....

[Simaril]

Originally posted by Schatzi

...snip...
Do WE really know what they *could* have done IRL? Besides, we can take risks that for a RL pilot are simply unacceptable. If we end up in a flat spin, we can say "dangit" and take off again.....

Lol....

agree 100%,  schatzi.

[Simaril]

When do you like to fly, glasses? I'm EST (currently GMT-4) and fly mostly in evenings.

I guess the challenge is pure turn fighting, flat turns and rolls, no BnZ or energy stuff, F4U-1D vs zeke. That means the standard doubel immel would pollute the results - so we'll have to come up with some rules for flat turn merges. Maybe launch from sea level bases, entire fight under 1k, recording results to assure compliance?

I cant remember the last time I've upped a zeke (I mostly do energy/vertical stuff), and I see you have at least 5 years more experience in flight sims than me -- so gimme a week or so to learn the bird a bit.

Lemme know what works for you!





edit: just looked back at some of your old scores, glasses -- your skill levels are WAY[/size] above mine, so if I manage to break even here it'll be pretty solid evidence that the F4U-1D isnt overmodelled!!   .

Since its usually "not the plane, its the pilot" that determines outcomes, I do hereby reserve the right not concede the flight model point unless you beat both me AND a turn pilot equal to your skill....

[bozon]

I find it hard to believe but I actually agree with glasses. F4u handling is questionably good. Also, beating a lower wingloaded, higher power loaded plane by going slower raises my eyebrow.

Last patch changed something in the FM that affected all planes one way or another. Kweassa's test was done before that patch (as part of the "fix 109" campaign). The test should be repeated for the f4u, if there are any volunteers.

Bozon

[Simaril]

Originally posted by bozon
I find it hard to believe but I actually agree with glasses.

....snip....

In honesty, I guess even if the zeke won all 5 times it wouldnt prove that the F4U wasnt "too good", just that the zeke was better....


I'd bet we could twist Widewing's arm to record some of his testing work and do the updated calculations, if Kweassa hasnt started his retesting already! I know Wide has a lot of stick time in the Hogs since the latest patch....



lastly, I dont pretend to know what was in Kweassa's mind as he did that incredible series of tests -- but he did MUCH more than try to get the 109s stabilized, IMHO.

[bozon]

The Zeke challange is a bit over doing it imo. My point was just that the FM change affected the F4u for the better and maybe too much of that.

lastly, I dont pretend to know what was in Kweassa's mind as he did that incredible series of tests -- but he did MUCH more than try to get the 109s stabilized, IMHO.

These indeed were very good tests and disprooved quite a few myths (including the claim that 109s can't turn well - it was just hard to do due to the instability). He has my respect for taking the time to do this. I didn't mean for it to sound otherwise.

Bozon

[Glasses]

Wel I'm not pulling stuff out of my rectum,this is from pilots who flew the plane that said it had very slow roll at lower speeds and the torque effects of the aircraft near stall where enough to kill a few pilots during landing,yet in AH they're non existant which  gives it this questionable modeling.

I have no doubt it was fast and I have no doubt it was rugged,but being able to perform maneuvers,tighter maneuvers with planes that are half the weight and double the power to weight ratios is just ludicrous.

[Widewing]

Originally posted by Glasses
Wel I'm not pulling stuff out of my rectum,this is from pilots who flew the plane that said it had very slow roll at lower speeds and the torque effects of the aircraft near stall where enough to kill a few pilots during landing,yet in AH they're non existant which  gives it this questionable modeling.

I have no doubt it was fast and I have no doubt it was rugged,but being able to perform maneuvers,tighter maneuvers with planes that are half the weight and double the power to weight ratios is just ludicrous.

The F4U-1D does roll rather slow at low speeds.... Just about everything else does too. You use rudder to induce a faster roll.

Remember, the Corsair was designed to land on a ship at low speeds.

As to torque... handling was benign unless one cobbed the power, which could cause the plane to roll smartly. Rookie pilots could get into trouble with that, just like rookie pilots get into trouble in AH2.

Finally, if you find the F4Us too nasty to stall fight, then don't stall fight 'em.

There is an alternative fighter for low speed brawls; you will discover that the post 2.07 Bf 109F-4 is every bit as able as the F4U-1D in a stall fight, and can beat the SpitV at its own game (being superior in the vertical), even with a reasonably able pilot in the Spitfire. You can fly insanely tight circles (it prefers turning left due to P factor and torque) with full flaps and it is as steady as a rock. Its flaps are superior to those of the Spitfires and it has a pretty good climb rate (just over 4k/minute).

While I haven't had a chance to fly it against a Spit16 flown by Urchin or a someone of his level, I have had the chance to fly against Fubar's Yak-9U (he had a ton of E at the outset) and it gobbled up the Yak in about 60 seconds. Indeed, the 109F is an evil beast. It probably will become a leading choice for duels as it really is that good.

Here's a short FILM of Sonic23 (SpitV) and me (109F) having some fun (film is zipped).

My regards,

Widewing

[Glasses]

There's a problem with your assesment Widewing, I've no question you're one of the most knowledgeable persons on this board as it comes to WW2 Aviation, and the Corsair,however the F4U in AH can go vertical with ease and hover like a chopper, not only that but if within anywhere from 600 to 800yards you might as well flight and straight and level sell your sheep and clean your underwear because you're going down, due to the fact the 50 cals or the tungsten hispano rounds always liquidate you from those ranges, that's my whole point the aircraft in AH performs as if it was a lighter aircraft with better power loading.

You have to remember as well when first introduced the F4U was assigned to Marine Land units,because the aircraft was very dangerous,including tail bounced which caused several pilots to drink sea water,when their tailhook failed to catch the wires.

I'm not on a quest to "pork " the F4U in AH but to rectify certain flying qualities it has that the plane didn't have back in the day.