Author Topic: F4Us and 109s are great fun these days (Read 3094 times)

Glasses · « **Reply #30 on:** May 06, 2006, 01:57:44 AM »

Yup too bad the 20s on German planesblow chunks.

Urchin · « **Reply #31 on:** May 06, 2006, 02:23:47 AM »

The 109G's might be fun to play around in, if it didnt feel like you were trying to look forward through a toilet paper roll taped to your eye.

Reschke · « **Reply #32 on:** May 06, 2006, 08:22:00 AM »

I believe the "rudder reversal" he is refering to is when in a climb at close to stall speeds. You can yank on the stick and drop flaps then pop your rudder to the left and the F4U will snap like a rubber band. Either direction is a great way to go and has been very useful for me when I am flying against Niki's and get into a scissors fight...which is nearly every time up.

Widewing · « **Reply #33 on:** May 06, 2006, 09:45:30 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by TracerX
I could not turn right very well at all, and at one point, hung there in the air for what seemed like eternity before I kicked rudder the opposite way and rolled out to the left.

Yeah, this is standard fare in the 109F... At just above stall, flaps down, nose high, the 109F will not roll right. No amount of aileron and rudder will unstick it. Surely this is torque combined with P-factor at work. You did what I do, rudder and ailerons left and she rolls quite smartly, indeed very rapidly to the left. So fast that you have to be quick to catch it before it over-rotates. When you expect it to stick like that you quickly learn how to use that to an advantage in certain circumstances as almost nothing reverses from right to left quicker.

My regards,

Widewing

Widewing · « **Reply #34 on:** May 06, 2006, 09:53:27 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Reschke
I believe the "rudder reversal" he is refering to is when in a climb at close to stall speeds. You can yank on the stick and drop flaps then pop your rudder to the left and the F4U will snap like a rubber band. Either direction is a great way to go and has been very useful for me when I am flying against Niki's and get into a scissors fight...which is nearly every time up.

That's basically the maneuver. Using rudder to rotate smartly, wings only slightly banked. When seen on film with trails on, it shows how insanely tight the plane reverses direction. Going left usually results in more wing drop. Going right allows for better control as torque resists the tendency to over-rotate. Timed right, the pursuing aircraft can do little to avoid being clobbered. Prior to the P-38 flap bug, the Lightning could perform this maneuver very well too.

My regards,

Widewing

Gryffin · « **Reply #35 on:** May 09, 2006, 01:39:14 PM »

After reading this thread I tried the 109F last night. It is an amazing little plane, I was easily able to outfly all kinds of late war planes, 51s, LA7s, p47s. As long as you can get them turning they don't stand a chance.

The only problem ... how the hell do you hit anything with the crappy guns? I missed at least 5 sure kills because I couldn't land a hit with the cannon, and the MGs are worse than useless

Krusty · « **Reply #36 on:** May 09, 2006, 02:47:59 PM »

Incorrect: It's not "a bug specific to the 38" it's a bug "with all flaps at full settings" -- try it in any aircraft. They act like super speed brakes. It's a bug for all flaps in all craft. That is what is going to be fixed next patch.

DoKGonZo · « **Reply #37 on:** May 09, 2006, 02:53:28 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Widewing
That's basically the maneuver. Using rudder to rotate smartly, wings only slightly banked. When seen on film with trails on, it shows how insanely tight the plane reverses direction. ...

Yeah ... that's where having the twisty-stick Saitek does me in. I just can't get that coordinated move, I usually end up flying semi-sideways at best, or corkscrewing into a spin at worst.

Krusty · « **Reply #38 on:** May 09, 2006, 03:56:55 PM »

Same here. A film of this move might be informative. Anybody have one showing it in action?

TDeacon · « **Reply #39 on:** May 11, 2006, 06:27:51 PM »

Krusty,

I am not sure you are correct on the issues with full flaps on "all craft". Look at my initial measurements in http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=176856

From my measurements, it would appear that with the 109-f4 and F4U-1C at least (51s have a bug), full flaps can be beneficial. The rate drops slightly, but the radius drops more. Are you saying that HTC intended the rate to increase instead?

Krusty · « **Reply #40 on:** May 11, 2006, 06:52:03 PM »

I don't refer to the "benefit" to the turn rate, rather there is a bug where full flaps (in any aircraft) increases the drag massively, acting as a huge speed brake. This has been admitted by HTC (Pyro, or Skuzzy, or somebody admitted it).

The lift is still there, I bet, so the help while turning remains, but the turn performance is also hindered greatly by slowing the plane down well past the "stable" point.

That's the bug.

Murdr · « **Reply #41 on:** May 11, 2006, 08:24:59 PM »

I believe you are incorrect on that krusty

DoKGonZo · « **Reply #42 on:** May 12, 2006, 03:27:48 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
Same here. A film of this move might be informative. Anybody have one showing it in action?

Well I spent an hour offline tonight trying to get this "rudder reversal" and either I ain't doing it right or it can't be done without rudder pedals or I don't know. All I get from the rudder is yaw and/or spin, depending on the plane. No rotation whatsoever.

One thing I noticed is that when looking at the stick settings the rudder response isn't instantaneous. Kick full rudder and the response curve eventually wanders over there in like a second. The stick is performing properly, but for some reason the response looks cumulative or something ... I don't know. Maybe that's why the tail doesn't kick around like you guys get.

Was kind of hoping to figure this trick out tonight to keep me interested because I'm frankly on the verge of going back into retirement. With all the HO'ing and ramming this just isn't much fun anymore.

Shaky · « **Reply #43 on:** May 12, 2006, 07:12:36 AM »

Having the same issue with peda;s DoK, can't seem to get a smooth rotation over, and all I get is a yaw with a big wing drop.

Platano · « **Reply #44 on:** May 12, 2006, 10:05:32 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Gryffin
After reading this thread I tried the 109F last night. It is an amazing little plane, I was easily able to outfly all kinds of late war planes, 51s, LA7s, p47s. As long as you can get them turning they don't stand a chance.

The only problem ... how the hell do you hit anything with the crappy guns? I missed at least 5 sure kills because I couldn't land a hit with the cannon, and the MGs are worse than useless

Me being a regular 109 pilot in the AvA I can tell you one word of advice.... yes the F4 is nimble little ride and yes the guns are rather weak, so what you have to do in the F4 is pretend like your cowl guns are damged and only use your hub cannon... Oh and one other thing, before I fire off my cannon I like to get in REAL close as to where I stick my propeller hub in the enemy's cockpit and wake him up by popping two or three 20mm shells directly into his ear