Author Topic: Atheism and the USA, followup (Read 10429 times)

Chairboy · « **Reply #165 on:** May 15, 2006, 12:47:17 PM »

The Grand Canyon was created by a river. In that sense, it has a 'creator', but do you believe that the creator must have consciousness, will, and intent? Is 'god' another name for a non-living, unconscious, natural process that initiated the big bang?

Of course this all takes us away from the intent of the thread, which I was hoping would stay focused on the role that atheists have in the US government. I don't hold christian beliefs against someone who is running for office, I vote the issues. Can all of the religionists here say the same thing about an atheist up for election?

lukster · « **Reply #166 on:** May 15, 2006, 12:55:13 PM »

I don't care what someone's religious beliefs are so long as they have a plan and can be successful in reducing the size of government including social programs and they can successfully promote individual liberty. I suspect we may differ on what the latter means though.

Arlo · « **Reply #167 on:** May 15, 2006, 01:18:42 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Suave
Because I've never met an atheist proclaimer on any continent I've been on, and I'm old. I've never seen an athiest preacher on my TV, I've never had an athiest knock on my door, or offer me athiest literature at a public place. It's hard for me to sympathize with the weariness of being harangued by atheists.

You mean this thread and all the other ones Chairboy's started that are essentially looking for responses regarding how bad Christians are and how good Atheists are ... are figments? Hmmmmm ... now that's rather philosophically interesting.

Arlo · « **Reply #168 on:** May 15, 2006, 01:21:29 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
You have unquestioning beliefs in the truth of unprovable ideas?

I took you for a more logic based individual.

Believing without a doubt that there isn't a creator is every bit as much a leap of faith as believing without a doubt there is one. Perhaps the doubting Thomases are the only true non-believers.

Arlo · « **Reply #169 on:** May 15, 2006, 01:24:24 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Chairboy
If you don't believe the easter bunny exists, that's a religion too, right?

Ahhh ... confusion of faith and religion. Seen this before. But this is just philosophical meanderings. Legal rights tends to require a definitive level playing field.

Vulcan · « **Reply #170 on:** May 15, 2006, 03:06:10 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Arlo
Believing without a doubt that there isn't a creator is every bit as much a leap of faith as believing without a doubt there is one. Perhaps the doubting Thomases are the only true non-believers.

OK... why should we believe in your god? Why not the Hindu gods? Or some god of a tribe buried deep in the Amazon? I mean... your god has a track record of dishonesty, intefering with other mens wives, nuking complete cities and so on.

Arlo · « **Reply #171 on:** May 15, 2006, 03:16:51 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Vulcan
OK... why should we believe in your god? Why not the Hindu gods? Or some god of a tribe buried deep in the Amazon? I mean... your god has a track record of dishonesty, intefering with other mens wives, nuking complete cities and so on.

I haven't asked you to. I'm not evangalizing here. I'm just addressing those who are. Those who are evangalizing Atheism as the superior to Christianity but taking a swing at their perceived enemy. If based on your viewpoints of God (what you call "your God"), Atheism's track record is no better. Because that's the track record of man. Don't confuse me with a fundamentalist. I'm aware of the fallibility of any faith's writings, Christianity included. But the teachings of Christ gave perspective. For those who chose to believe them.

The best way to convince someone that your beliefs are worthy is living them and setting a decent example (Lord knows I'm not the best at that). That goes for Atheists as well a Christians a well as Muslims a well as Jews ... etc.

Chairboy · « **Reply #172 on:** May 15, 2006, 03:19:31 PM »

Of course, an atheist who lives well and does good by others is still condemned to the burning depths of hell. The hard sale indeed!

Back to the subject, I've gotten one answer from someone on my "Would you vote for an atheist who in all other respectes represented your views?" question. Anyone out there who wouldn't?

Arlo · « **Reply #173 on:** May 15, 2006, 03:27:35 PM »

Still don't see anyone suggesting your "Yay Atheists! Boo Christians!" thread be turned into a Christian evangelism thread. *ShruG* You're free to believe what you're secure and comfortable believing. I just don't see your display here particularly secure looking.

Yeah ... I'll vote for anyone that proves themselves capable and are willing to represent my needs in office and serve this nation well. Do you consider that a particularly "damning" suggestion?

Chairboy · « **Reply #174 on:** May 15, 2006, 03:51:42 PM »

Good, two 'yes', no 'not on your life'. Good!

BTW, what part of this thread is "atheists yay! christians boo!"?

Arlo · « **Reply #175 on:** May 15, 2006, 03:55:22 PM »

Feel free to clarify your actual intent. Seemed transparent to me but then, so have the others. If I'm wrong, I can take it, but it'll take a pretty good amount of rationalization for you to get me there. Still, if this particular one had nothing to do with the other ones, forgive?

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #176 on:** May 15, 2006, 10:02:36 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Arlo
Believing without a doubt that there isn't a creator is every bit as much a leap of faith as believing without a doubt there is one. Perhaps the doubting Thomases are the only true non-believers.

Absolutely: hence atheism is faith that there is no God.
That is why I am agnostic: no faith one way or the other.

Arlo · « **Reply #177 on:** May 15, 2006, 11:19:54 PM »

No argument here. Imagine that.

Sandman · « **Reply #178 on:** May 15, 2006, 11:46:37 PM »

Agnosticism is compatible with both theism or atheism.

Vulcan · « **Reply #179 on:** May 16, 2006, 02:44:43 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Arlo
I haven't asked you to.

You may not have, but christianity in general is making a fairly staunch effort to force me to. Heres the hypocracy... "In god we trust", shoved down the throats of american's, in NZ its "god of nations"... try to get the words changed and the christians claim we're being 'antichristian' and picking on them. But they still want us to (falsely) worship their god.

For me, and many athiests I know, my first reaction to christians is its an excuse to hide behind. Sure there are exceptions, but very few I've ever met practise what the preach - usually its 90% preach 10% practise.

So for me its a bunch of people trying to force their beliefs down my throat, one way or another, forcing me to 'recognise' their god, trying to say they are better than me for their beliefs, and passing judgement on me on my lack of belief in their god alone (ie not my actions), then in the background their not really following those beliefs. Wouldn't that make you just a little iritated?