Author Topic: National Security Agency vs The Bill of Rights  (Read 2055 times)

Offline Hap

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National Security Agency vs The Bill of Rights
« on: May 19, 2006, 08:13:46 AM »
I think this matter has the chance to become the greatest constitutional challenge America has faced--excepting the Civil War.

What think you?  It is by far the most important domestic matter that has ocurred in my lifetime, since 1957.  

hap

Offline Yeager

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National Security Agency vs The Bill of Rights
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2006, 08:17:35 AM »
I dont think so Tim........

:rofl

But perhaps.....depends alot on how the mid term elections turn out :rolleyes:
"If someone flips you the bird and you don't know it, does it still count?" - SLIMpkns

Offline Hap

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National Security Agency vs The Bill of Rights
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2006, 08:36:35 AM »
Just in case some needed a score card:

http://www.nsa.gov/

THE BILL OF RIGHTS
Amendments 1-10 of the Constitution

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The Conventions of a number of the States having, at the time of adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added, and as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government will best insure the beneficent ends of its institution;

Resolved, by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, two-thirds of both Houses concurring, that the following articles be proposed to the Legislatures of the several States, as amendments to the Constitution of the United States; all or any of which articles, when ratified by three-fourths of the said Legislatures, to be valid to all intents and purposes as part of the said Constitution, namely:


Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.


Amendment II
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.


Amendment III
No soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.


Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.


Amendment VI
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.


Amendment VII
In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise reexamined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.


Amendment VIII
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.


Amendment IX
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.


Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Offline Hangtime

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National Security Agency vs The Bill of Rights
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2006, 09:00:33 AM »
Hap, the Nixon administration and Hoovers FBI presented one hell of a crisis that was downright ugly. Illegal wire tapping of Americans by the FBI. Use of federal agencies to block congressional investigations. Use of the power of the presidency for criminal intent.... senior white house officials went to prison.

A constitutional crisis of immense magnitude. The public outcry and intense scutinity of the FBI and the CIA lead to the creation of a new super secret agency... NSA.

The result is what we NOW have.. Constitutional Crisis part Duex. And already.. new Agencies are being proposed. Why is it everytime we catch the bastards red-handed they reorganize and burrow deeper under the guise of 'restructuring' or 'cleaning house'?
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Hap

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National Security Agency vs The Bill of Rights
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2006, 09:13:15 AM »
Hang, on the way to work, the HUAC matter came to mind.  And Nixon also came to mind also.

I hope light gets put on all this.

hap

Offline Cthen

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National Security Agency vs The Bill of Rights
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2006, 10:05:10 AM »
Quote
Amendment IX
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

First thanks for posting this Hap. I fully agree with you!!

When first reading this, I stopped, went back and read it again, thinking to myself just WHAT does this really mean.  Been a long time since high school civics.  :cool:

So, I started up the search engine and began the enlightenment processes. :huh :lol

It seems I am now FOR gay marriage :O

This is an issue I had never even pondered for a minute, waste of time thinking about pole jockeys and a** pilots, right? right!

Why would the many states go to so much trouble to deny or disparage rights that others (heteros) freely have or "pursuit of happiness"? (not Hap's p*n*s) :rofl  

This issue seems clear to me, if Steve loves Adam WHO CARES? They aren't at my house it effects me zero nada zilch.  I think this is more proof of "religous" repression of rights.

Discuss please

Before you even post it,  NOT gay ..... married 17 years happily :noid  and 2 teenagers both hetero also.


Cthen

PS sorry i am not trying to highjack the thread.  Trying to add to the scope!
« Last Edit: May 19, 2006, 10:12:07 AM by Cthen »

Offline midnight Target

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National Security Agency vs The Bill of Rights
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2006, 10:13:03 AM »
I'm not sure which scares me more, the abuse of our rights by this administration or the lack of concern shown by huge swaths of the population... especially those watching Faux News.



BTW Hap, I was in Casper a couple weeks ago.

Offline Yeager

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National Security Agency vs The Bill of Rights
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2006, 10:33:21 AM »
MT, generally speaking...if you find "huge swaths" of your population on a completely different page then you are on individually.....dont be so quick to diagnose the problem as one belonging entirely to that huge populated  swath :rolleyes:

The constitutional system is designed to protect your rights...it has done so successfully for over 230 years and I have every confidence that this wonderful system will continue to protect your rights.  In spite of your paranoia against such things.
"If someone flips you the bird and you don't know it, does it still count?" - SLIMpkns

Offline ChickenHawk

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National Security Agency vs The Bill of Rights
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2006, 11:26:43 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Yeager
MT, generally speaking...if you find "huge swaths" of your population on a completely different page then you are on individually.....dont be so quick to diagnose the problem as one belonging entirely to that huge populated  swath :rolleyes:


I think it's more a problem of huge swaths being more concerned with what’s going to happen on the next OC episode (don't watch it), then being concerned that their personal privacy is being compromised.  Watch Jay Walking on the Tonight show sometime and you'll get a pretty good example of the "huge swath" mentality.

Yes, the constitutional system is designed to protect our rights, but it's those very rights that are under attack.
Do not attribute to malice what can be easily explained by incompetence, fear, ignorance or stupidity, because there are millions more garden variety idiots walking around in the world than there are blackhearted Machiavellis.

Offline Hap

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National Security Agency vs The Bill of Rights
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2006, 11:31:46 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
the lack of concern shown by huge swaths of the population... especially those watching Faux News.


:aok :aok :aok  Bingo!!!

also, drop me an email next time you in town.

hap

Offline Mighty1

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National Security Agency vs The Bill of Rights
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2006, 11:39:05 AM »
So you think there is something wrong with people who want to hear both sides of a story rather than the liberal side the MSM gives?


:noid
I have been reborn a new man!

Notice I never said a better man.

Offline Hap

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National Security Agency vs The Bill of Rights
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2006, 11:42:12 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Yeager
The constitutional system is designed to protect your rights...it has done so successfully for over 230 years and I have every confidence that this wonderful system will continue to protect your rights.




 I don't think you're right. I think the Constitution exists to make
"E Pluribus Unam" a reality.  That IS MILES from protecting my my my, your, your, your, rights.  What you wrote is absolutely contingent.  It is a sidebar though.

To view the Constitution without understanding the rudiments of Calvinsim (I'm Catholic not a Calvinist) misses the reason the framers consituted our government so.  Missing their point of view, which is so un-pc, throws the entire American Experiment into a solipsistic uck-ball.

Which is sorta what we have now.  The question, purely in a political context, "Can Man Rule Himself?" is not a settled.  

If someone demands that we've been at this long enough for it to be settled and would force me into an answer, I would say, "No."  Man is incpable of self-rule unless it be at the expense of his fellows.

Our only hope is Grace.

hap

Offline Hap

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National Security Agency vs The Bill of Rights
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2006, 12:44:28 PM »
For any still out there,

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Here's the self-stated 6 reasons the framers chose to consitutue our governemnt in n the manner which they detailed in our Constitution.

7 articles and 27 amendments.

hap

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/cartoons.htm

Offline Gunslinger

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National Security Agency vs The Bill of Rights
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2006, 01:06:33 PM »
OK so I don't get it.  Where exactly were my civil rights violated?

Offline Mighty1

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National Security Agency vs The Bill of Rights
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2006, 01:25:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
OK so I don't get it.  Where exactly were my civil rights violated?



SSSSSSHHHH!!!

Be quite before they take away more of your rights!




 :noid


Damn there went another one!


At this rate we will be out by morning!

:huh
I have been reborn a new man!

Notice I never said a better man.