National Security Agency vs The Bill of Rights

[Shuckins]

You call Hooters instead of going there in person?

Day-um!  You OUGHT to be investigated!

Really a frightening scenario you just outlined there, my man.  I'm gonna lose a lot of sleep worrying about the government monitoring my calls to Hooters.  I'll have to give them up.  I'd hate to spend 20 years in Leavenworth because the government found evidence of my unbridled lusts.

[Hangtime]

You don't get it. And, since you live such a princely life, I guess you have nothing to fear, because the government never makes mistakes, never ever acts on incorrect information and would never ever leak the incorrect info to your employer, who would never fire you because he knows, just like you do, that you live a princely life.

Of course, if your right to privacy was inviolate, all of the above does not apply. Remind yourself of than when you get canned for seditious behavior, Prince.

[Nash]

In a dozen years, these apologists will be scrambling for the hills, dodging behind any lame mound of an excuse they can find. It will be interesting, and pathetic, to note the tortured wording.

"We were...."...

and "We were...."

lmao.

You were nothing.

"Yes, I supported the betrayal of my country..... but!"...

I can chuckle now, because there is light at the end of the tunnel. Because the Christopaths are eating their young, and the 101'st aren't exactly that tough, go figure.

Implosion. Immolation.

The complete lack of any sense that these men ever had any idea how to actually govern.

All up in everyone's faces now.

[Arlo]

Originally posted by Shuckins
How many bombings have you had in your home state in the last four years?  How many airplane hi-jackings?  Any buildings been the target of suicide attacks?  Deadly gases released?  Nuclear blasts leveled any of your citiies?

Whoa there Nellie. I don't recall all that many before 911 either. Certainly no deadly gases released by terrorists. Only nukes ever blown up in this nation to date were by our own government. I hear the administration tooting it's own horn about how it's the only thing standing between us and certain destruction based on it's decision to bypass FISA at it's convenience and access my phone records without a warrant. Guess I'm not as easily impressed as you about it. Sorry.

[Gunslinger]

Like it was pointed out earlier, a private company gets more information on your personal data than the federal govt does any day.   Truth be told if you don't check the right box they have the right to sell that info to the highest bidder at whim.

I'm not concerned about the federal govt know who get's called from my number.

If I commit a criminal act and there is an investigation there will be a warrent issued to supeana my phone records.  That is the only way they can be used against me in court.


NOW,

If Habib happend to call a certain number after aljazera played a new tape of some nut job and 10 other habib's called the SAME number after said tape than that is a pattern(even though according to information available the NSA did not know WHO was calling just that calls where made).  If an attack happend arround the world after so many phone calls to a certain number happend and we could then issue warrents and monitor said phone calls and it prevented future attacks than I would say:

1.  A pattern lead to an attack
2.  We could exploit that pattern to prevent the attack
3.  We could then use our court system to prosecute those that are in collusion with the attack

To top it off we have a court system that get's briefed and is providing oversight to all of this as it goes on in conjunction with our ways.  If you want to continue to tie the federal govt's hands in reguards to protecting it's population that by all means do not complain when they fail to do so.  I beleive in civil liberties but I do not think that the constitution is a death sentence.  

We should not afford the enemies trying to destroy the same constitution that protects us, the oppertunity to exploit what means they can to destroy that said document that provides us the very liberties we mean to protect.

It's like allowing a car chase suspect a means of escape just because the speed limit allows it.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Arlo
Whoa there Nellie. I don't recall all that many before 911 either. Certainly no deadly gases released by terrorists. Only nukes ever blown up in this nation to date were by our own government. I hear the administration tooting it's own horn about how it's the only thing standing between us and certain destruction based on it's decision to bypass FISA at it's convenience and access my phone records without a warrant. Guess I'm not as easily impressed as you about it. Sorry.

you seem like one of many people that are apart of the "wait for it" crowd.  I just don't get it.

Terrorists did not come through the southern border so we should not be weary of them trying to do so yet.

Terrorists have yet to use deadly gas (in this country) so we don't need to worry bout that yet.

Terrorists have yet to use any type of radiological device to inflict harm so we don't need to worry bout that yet.

It just seems to me the same thing could have been said on Sept 10th:

Terrorists have yet to hijack planes and crash them into buildings.......So by that we shouldn't have prepared for that?  I'm not saying we need to live in a prepetual state of fear but if you don't trust your federal govt to provide for your national security than WHO DO YOU TRUST???????

[Hangtime]

We should not afford the enemies trying to destroy the same constitution that protects us, the oppertunity to exploit what means they can to destroy that said document that provides us the very liberties we mean to protect.

*thunk*thunk*thunk*



it's hopeless. i suspect a woman could understand that logic. but; sadly, I just can't buy that one.

Sean Hannity., OTOH; would prolly put that one on the air.

Guns, the last time I checked, the islamist nutballs just want us dead. They don't  even have  a passing intrest in the constitution. They just wanna kill americans. hack off a head here, blow up a city there.. the more; the merrier, the bigger the block parties in towlie land.

It's the government that wants our rights.

[Skuzzy]

And in this very microcosm, you see why we, as a nation, will never be able to thwart the government machine.   Until the people of this nation, regardless of political affiliation, regardless of race or creed, regardless of religious preference, can stand up and with one resuonding voice scream, "WE ARE NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!", nothing will change and we will continue to sink into the mire we have had a heavy hand in creating.

So Hang, yes, bend on over.  It seems that is the only thing we will consciously, subconsciously, willingly, or with great stress, agree on, as a nation.

[storch]

Originally posted by Skuzzy
They will do what they want to do and there is nothing anyone can do about it.  No point in even talking about it.  Caring about will do not good.  Not caring about it will do no good.  Nothing we can say or do will do not good.

Call it apathy, call it pessimism, call it the truth.  It will not change a thing.  We are at the mercy of the political system we have created.  The checks and balances do not exist which would allow any chance of correcting the situation.

So get all worked up about it.  Yell and scream at others.  Jump up and down and throw a hissy fit.  In the end, it will not change a thing.  Nothing will.

which is worse, apathy or ignorance?  when we (storch and company) build a wooden gate we are careful to select lumber that is tightly grained and has been air dried in our shop while bound.  as the pieces are assembled care is taken to position each member in such a manner as to cause the pieces to warp oppositely of the adjacent pieces.  since the nature of the wood is to bend we make those tendencies work against each other to create a net zero result.  It doesn't work perfectly every time but therein lies the challenge and the charm.  I think the framers of our constitution and the fathers of our great republic understood this concept very well.  it's being played out every day.  it is currently our generation's responsibility to see that it remains as it has in the past.  we do indeed keep the necessary evil in check, we do it with our votes not with our rants.

[Hap]

Originally posted by Skuzzy
And in this very microcosm, you see why we, as a nation, will never be able to thwart the government machine.   Until the people of this nation, regardless of political affiliation, regardless of race or creed, regardless of religious preference, can stand up and with one resuonding voice scream, "WE ARE NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!", nothing will change and we will continue to sink into the mire we have had a heavy hand in creating.

There's been a few times during this century that gov't has somewhat turned on us.  This is one of them.  Executive branch obtaining phone records without the cooperation of the judicial and legislative branches.  It's wrong.  If USA Today has it's facts right.

I'm emailing my 2 senators and my representative to the house of representatives.  And you're right Skuzzy.  They won't get off the dime because I emailed them.  If I don't do what little I can, then I will be doing wrong.  Gotten old enough that I don't want to do wrong anymore.  

hap

[AWMac]

Raise up, make your voices heard!

There is a Time for a Change....

Free America!

Mac

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Hap
There's been a few times during this century that gov't has somewhat turned on us.  This is one of them.  Executive branch obtaining phone records without the cooperation of the judicial and legislative branches.  It's wrong.  If USA Today has it's facts right.

I'm emailing my 2 senators and my representative to the house of representatives.  And you're right Skuzzy.  They won't get off the dime because I emailed them.  If I don't do what little I can, then I will be doing wrong.  Gotten old enough that I don't want to do wrong anymore.  

hap

Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah,

1.  The phone companys gave the info to the NSA as requestion
2.  If no private date was given, guess what, your privacy wasn't violated

hence no violation of the constitution.  I do not buy into this erosion of rights.  I do not buy into the "govt is out to get me"   It all just seems like hysteria and paranoia.  

If we were invaded by an actual army from an actual state would you be saying the same things?  Would you want the invaders to enjoy your civil rights?  Would you want them to have due process?  Would you want the army to get a search warrent before going on patrol?

[lazs2]

maybe I have allways just been paranoid but I have never considered anything that I said over the phone to be secure and private.

lazs

[john9001]

term limits

[Cthen]

"When the Nazis came for the Communists, I wasn’t a Communist and so I did nothing. When they came for the Jews, I wasn’t a Jew and so I did nothing. When they came for the Catholics, I wasn’t a Catholic and so I did nothing. When they came for me, there was no one left to do anything."

                 .


Be Ever Vigilant friends!