Gameplay seem boring? Here's an idea...

[Kev367th]

So lets see up to now it's the fault of -

Toolshedders
Lemmings
Win the war guys
Buff pilots
Newbies

Well geez that doesn't really leave many left does it?

Or could it be it's the usual VERY VOCAL MINORITY trying to dictate to the MAJORITY how the game should be played?

Not disagreeing or agreeing with any point, just pointing out the OBVIOUS.

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by Westy
$10 says that within a week there will be a post by some player about this new type of "experten" horde ruining thier fun

Just sayin...


(FWIW a "horde buster group" is the most appealing thing to pop up in over two years on these boards.  (Besides CT/TOD)  Almost enough for me to want to plug the hotas in, subscribe and do that online dogfighting thang)

I expect the whines about it. I would also expect such threads to be excellent summertime reading. Hell, ch200 might get very entertaining too.

In the grand scheme of things there's probably no way for players themselves to stop The Horde. But this could provide a way for us oldsters (furballers and otherwise) to have some fun with it.

[aztec]

Originally posted by Westy
"spend that energy improving the MA ourselves."

 lol.   You may as well call youself Don Quixote and attack a windmill.

(I disagree Westy...Don Quixote was unsuccessful. I've seen cases where Sims' suggestion has succeeded.)


"Sounds like you are advocating common decency and personal responsibility Simaril.."

 Noble and worthy. But the game dynamics repel things like that.  Like oil and water the internet-based MA and those attributes won't mix.

(I'm sad to say that  for the most part  I agree here Westy. And unfortunately it is pretty much the same with most all of the online pusuits I've entered into. But...every little bit counts, and I'm just here doin time anyway.)  

[Simaril]

I dont think gameplay is anyone's "fault" -- it is what people choose to make it. And, the majority of paying subscribers DONT think there is a problem to fix. They're out there playing, they're not on the boards complaining.

The very existance of the furballer minority is clear evidence that the incentives built into the system dont direct whether we like one form of gameplay or another. They DO affect HOW players go about reaching the goals they like, but they dont make a furballer suddenly want to drop the hangars.


So you cant reasonably expect any tooling HTC does to make people want to play the way you do. Thats just how it is, and thats why I think involvement with individuals (repeated by hundreds of mentors) is the best way to shape the MA. In other words, mentoring might increase fighter guy retention realtive to the hangar killers and thereby shift the balance of player preferences in the game.

( An aside -- I strongly suspect that the biggest reason for the horde is simply lower skill level. I know that in my first months I couldnt survive without 2:1 advantage -- why would you expect the unskilled to keep trying 1v1 when they always lose? The motivated ones will eventually seek training, but I cant begin to tell how many times I've heard "I know I suck in fighters, but I'm not going to get any better so I just have fun while I die."

If we could see skill levels rise, so that the median KPD was closer to 1.0 [right now it appears that half of the MA has below a 0.5 KPD, half above] we'd see FAR more fighting..... )

But in any case new rules from HT wont make the MA into furballers' heaven, simply because the majority dont like to (or can't) play that way.

[aztec]

Originally posted by Simaril
I dont think gameplay is anyone's "fault" -- it is what people choose to make it. And, the majority of paying subscribers DONT think there is a problem to fix. They're out there playing, they're not on the boards complaining.

The furballer minority is clear evidence that the incentives built into the system dont direct whether we like one form of gameplay or another. They DO affect HOW players go about reaching the goals they like, but they dont make a furballer suddenly want to drop the hangars.


So you cant reasonably expect any tooling HTC does to make people want to play the way you do. Thats just how it is, and thats why I think involvement with individuals (repeated by hundreds of mentors) is the best way to shape the MA. In other words, mentoring might increase fighter guy retention realtive to the hangar killers and thereby shift the balance of player preferences in the game.

( An aside -- I strongly suspect that the biggest reason for the horde is simply lower skill level. I know that in my first months I couldnt survive without 2:1 advantage -- why would you expect the unskilled to keep trying 1v1 when they always lose? The motivated ones will eventually seek training, but I cant begin to tell how many times I've heard "I know I suck in fighters, but U'm not going to get any better so I just have fun." If we could see skill levels rise, so that the median KPD was closer to 1.0 [right now it appears that half of the MA has below a 0.5 KPD, half above] we'd see FAR more fighting..... )

But in any case new rules from HT wont make the MA into furballers' heaven, simply because the majority dont like to (or can't) play that way.

So now you're gonna play the common sense card Sim....EVIL! Hmmm, you're not suggesting life is what ya make it are you?

Sir

[wrag]

Originally posted by hitech
Simaril : Wise post grasshopper.

HiTech

Wait a minute!!!!!!

Who are you???? What have you done with HiTech????

Nothing is mis-spelled here?!?!?!?!?!?!?!:D

(OH P.S. I find I agree, good post)

[mars01]

So you cant reasonably expect any tooling HTC does to make people want to play the way you do. Thats just how it is, and thats why I think involvement with individuals (repeated by hundreds of mentors) is the best way to shape the MA. In other words, mentoring might increase fighter guy retention realtive to the hangar killers and thereby shift the balance of player preferences in the game.

You guys have to get off the "So you cant reasonably expect any tooling HTC does to make people want to play the way you do. "  stuff.  Your just plain wrong.  I could care less if people want to Ho, Horde, Vulch etc.  What most people want is a place where you can always find a fight and you don't have to fly 5 mins to get there.  If that were supplied then I could give a crap what the rest of you do.  Those that want to fight will be there.

[Platano]

Originally posted by Raptor01
Want to have fun? Put down the late war birds and fly a P40B or something like that. Game is much more fun to me when otd in an old bird killing spit16s and la7s. I wish more people would try some planes from before 1943, loads of fun.

Try the AvA

[Dace]

Originally posted by mars01
  What most people want is a place where you can always find a fight and you don't have to fly 5 mins to get there.  

I think thats where u are mistaken. From what I've seen furballers are the minority.

U have to remember there are ALOT of noob/average players, and it's EASY to take down a FH.

[FALCONWING]

Nice post sim


I will put forth my idea again of a good map:

1) only front line bases a couple deep are capturable

2) noone can be "reset"

3) maps switch every 3 days automatically

4) there is a fiter town and tank town on every map with uncapturable bases and 40k walls

5) around each tank/fitertown and uncapturable base are unkillable deadly acks that decimate vulchers/campers

As the leader of the Birds of Prey (94 members) i can say that i enjoy all aspects of the game.  I only take bases because if you dont you end up with the pointy side of the AH stick and your country gets ganged as the other 2 try to "win" the war.  I spend approximately half my time porking troops in a lala and have been labelled a "lala dweeb" from those who die while i do this.  It would be great to have maps that one can have fun with without the "reset" threat that leads to the "hording"

one last observation for the l33t "fiter only" jocks...you are major "horder" or "lemmings" as well....very few of the above choose outnumbered/disadvantaged fights.  I understand that havign multiple wingmen and pals around is more fun....so do the "toolshedders" you spew venom at.  It is not uncommon when fiting rooks to run into "hordes" of "fiter only" guys who linger around bases picking off enemy that clear a perimeter.  i recognize this as a legitimate tactic but fail to see any difference between them and the "hordes" of basetakers who do the same.  perhaps the only difference is the toolshedders dont "call you out" on ch200 or up "special missions" with advantages to take you out as well and gloat about it.  they seem to have more maturity as newbs as you do as "vets"  

[Visigothan]

I'm a long time single player simmer, but new to Aces High II.

I subscribed a month ago, and I haven't had this much fun playing a "game" in a long, long long time.

One of the things I like the most *is* the strategy of attempting to capture various bases, and defending your own from being captured. My kills/deaths ratio is absolutely terrible, because I *enjoy* attempting to take off at a base that's under heavy attack, and engage the enemy.

I enjoy being able to coordinate with my fellow pilots towards a direct goal, such as flattening an enemy airfield. I enjoy the 10 or 15 minute flight time from my airfield to the enemy's.

Why?

Simple!

Anticipation.

I find that the anticipation of, and then the subsequent action seen are equal in enjoyment, and both contribute to the experience equally. Sims have always been about immersion, for me, and I'm not just talking graphics - gameplay is the biggest component of immersion, and AH2 delivers in spades.

[mars01]

I think thats where u are mistaken. From what I've seen furballers are the minority.

Yep when I said most people I was refering to Furballers, that being the context.

 Visigothan - Yep so were most of us the first couple of years, then you hit that point where what you described gets very routine and mundane.

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by mars01
Yep when I said most people I was refering to Furballers, that being the context.

 Visigothan - Yep so were most of us the first couple of years, then you hit that point where what you described gets very routine and mundane.

For me, pure TnB furballing got mundane.

What I really enjoy now is being with 2 or 3 people of similar experience/skill levels and working as a team and just going out on a frei jagd for half an hour or so. When you get a group like that where everyone sees what's going on and does the right things there's nothing else like it.

It's kind of the antithesis of what Mars/Lasz like but one doesn't negate the other.

[mars01]

It's kind of the antithesis of what Mars/Lasz like but one doesn't negate the other.

WTF are you talking about Dok.  IF your talking fighting with a wingman who doesn't like that?  If your talking about getting 3 guys loading up bombs and blowing crap up then yeah your right. LOL

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by mars01
WTF are you talking about Dok.  IF your talking fighting with a wingman who doesn't like that?  If your talking about getting 3 guys loading up bombs and blowing crap up then yeah your right. LOL

I meant the half-hour flight part.